Fuel Saving Remaps

[sr-performancelive..]

ha ha, i know what you mean mate when money's a bit scarce..
When a car is remapped it makes it more fuel efficient no matter how you drive it. although you will be using that bit less if your not so heavy with the right foot..!

 

[turbopete]

what sort of gains can be achieved with an e300 turbodiesel?

 

[jberks]

Just read through this - bit of a marathon.
A couple of thoughts.
Remaps work by a mix of 2 things - increasing the length of time the injectors stay open and sme fiddling with the turbo boost.
Now, the reason most people see an improvement in MPG is that they rely on the computer. The computer is pre-set to expect a certain amount of fuel to be injected per injector pulse. Post remap, the pulse now injects more fuel, the computer doesn't know this and so underestimates the fuel added.

On the other side, as the engine now develops more torque, you can change up earlier. Lower revs = less injector pulses per journey and so improved computer MPG. Depending on the car, there may be some benefit here as whilst the amount of fuel per pulse is higher that increase may still be less than that used by running at higher revs. But, whilst you can take advantage in a manual by dropping into 6th at 40, an auto will probably not change up sufficently early to get the benefit.

Reduced engine revs reduces wear - though the strain of increased torque may contra that to some extent. You'll also probably see increased injector wear. So there IS a cost. No such thing as a free luch.

All that said, a remap is still a great way to get improved performance.

On the 'then why don't merc do it' question, the answer is above. It decreases engine lifespan. In the uk, with regular servicing, decent oil and decent fuel this is not really a concern, but it would be in some other countries and they can't produce a remap for everyone. So, you're using some of the leway built into the car and there's nothing wrong with that, so long as you understand it.

On copyright - You're not selling Merc code for installation into another make, you're not selling merc code as your own, you're simply making changes to their code on the vehicle it came from. Warranty issues - sure but copyright would be a tough one to fight I'd imagine. It would be like prosecuting someone changing the text in a book.

 

[hawk20]

I agree with a lot of what you say Jberks-as ever. BUT most of what you say is true about chips being able to increase performance at the cost of more engine wear and reduced warranty as a result. Agree with all that.

BUT the new thing is chip companies are finding resistance to buying chips for performance gains with higher insurance and less warranty, on over-crowded roads where you can't really use more performance than we already have, anyway. So now they are trying to sell chips with outrageous claims about fuel economy with no expert scientific tests to back up the claims. And anyone with a brain bigger than a pimple can see that 15% improvement in economy from a simple chip is simply laughable or every car maker in the world would be doing it.

None of them want What Car or Which or Autocar to do scientific tests because they know that the false readings from the computer (which you describe) caused by the chips would show up.

Using somebody else's software without permission and then reselling it even after you have modified it is not normally regarded as legal. Try pinching the microsoft operating system, rewriting bits of it, and then reselling it.

The trouble with trying to stop chip companies is that they are too small, too short-lived, too numerous, and too easy to close and re-open with a new name. So prosecutions are rare-if any.

How many people remember the atomiser and all the other wonderful snake-oil ways of saving at least 10% to 15% on your fuel bill. Where have all the flowers gone? Gone to graveyards every one. And good riddance.

 

[cmax200]

I could not be bothered to read all the posts on this subject, but would like to add
Re: advertising on the site, I have have no problem with that, if it was not for the recommendations or links on postings, I would still be having to suffer the costs of going to an MB garage rather than use one of the respected "indies" that are on here.
If the guy is offering a service that is of benefit to us then good luck to him. If its not all its cracked up to be, then the feedback will tell all.

 

[Miffy]

Superchips have been around for over 30 years, so not quite a fly by night operation, and they offer a money back offer if a TD doesnt show a real improvement in mpg

 

[jberks]

Using somebody else's software without permission and then reselling it even after you have modified it is not normally regarded as legal. Try pinching the microsoft operating system, rewriting bits of it, and then reselling it.

The trouble with trying to stop chip companies is that they are too small, too short-lived, too numerous, and too easy to close and re-open with a new name. So prosecutions are rare-if any.

How many people remember the atomiser and all the other wonderful snake-oil ways of saving at least 10% to 15% on your fuel bill. Where have all the flowers gone? Gone to graveyards every one. And good riddance.

I agree - fuel savings are always going to be tenuous. It is possible, as I've said, but also I imagine rare, as 99% of the time the driver will simply use the extra power and still change up at the same time. That said, its not fair to say that there is absolutely no logic to the argument. In the same way as a 240 is less economical than a 320 because its underpowered and so has to work harder, so an underpowered car, chipped, could result in a more relaxed driving style and hence better economy - so I'd say, a chipped, underpowered manual car could indeed demonstrate real world fuel savings, though I suspect 10-15% is a bit ambitious without additional steps such as low resistance tyres etc.

On the reselling software - not sure. You see what they're charging for is the act of modifiying YOUR existing software. They're not charging you for a copy of MBs orginal code - modded or otherwise, as you already own it. Its a subtle but possibly crucial difference. I wonder whether this is the reason that some sell you a tool to extract the software from your ecu, send it to them and they send you back a file to install. In this way they can claim to be modifying yours rather than simply selling a modded copy of MBs.

 

[hawk20]

Fortunately, my company, Hylo-veronic products (incorporated in Lichtenstein) is able to offer members a substantial discount on my own organic product, with added Aloe Vera I may add, which cuts fuel consumption by slightly over 20% in the average Mercedes car. The product comes in the form of organic biscuits which with the added Aloe Vera, and the incorporation of small quantities of hyleronic acid, has the amazing property of reducing fuel consumption if eaten daily for one year and one day. The biscuits come with a watertight 12 month warranty subject to terms and conditions which merely require the simple operating instructions to be carried out to the letter. These are that after eating the biscuit (one each day without fail), one or two crumbs need to be placed in the boot of your car especially after 10pm.

At the end of the one year period the amazing economy gains will immediately be noticed. These are guaranteed*. Price to members, for a trial period of 3 months only, is a remarkable £300.


* The twelve month warranty guarantees that the claims made for the product will be met. In the event of any complaints simply return the product, within twelve months of the date of purchase, in its original wrapper and we will forward to the customer a second packet of the Hylo-veronic biscuits for the concessionary price of only £150.

 

[Miffy]

Fortunately, my company, Hylo-veronic products (incorporated in Lichtenstein) is able to offer members a substantial discount on my own organic product, with added Aloe Vera I may add, which cuts fuel consumption by slightly over 20% in the average Mercedes car. The product comes in the form of organic biscuits which with the added Aloe Vera, and the incorporation of small quantities of hyleronic acid, has the amazing property of reducing fuel consumption if eaten daily for one year and one day. The biscuits come with a watertight 12 month warranty subject to terms and conditions which merely require the simple operating instructions to be carried out to the letter. These are that after eating the biscuit (one each day without fail), one or two crumbs need to be placed in the boot of your car especially after 10pm.

At the end of the one year period the amazing economy gains will immediately be noticed. These are guaranteed*. Price to members, for a trial period of 3 months only, is a remarkable £300.


* The twelve month warranty guarantees that the claims made for the product will be met. In the event of any complaints simply return the product, within twelve months of the date of purchase, in its original wrapper and we will forward to the customer a second packet of the Hylo-veronic biscuits for the concessionary price of only £150.

Can I order 2 of them

 

[sr-performancelive..]

Well, what can i say??
Evolutionchips who do my maps are part of motorsport developments who have been in the industry of modifying and tuning for many years, and are regarded as one of the best in UK..
I have never been on a forum where there is sooooo much negativity regarding remapping!
I could understand it if you had personal experience of a "bad" remap or didn't get what you were promised from one.
So, with such negative comments it's no wonder I haven't had anyone requiring a remap off these forums.. But you probably think that's good as your saving someone from having spent there hard earned on such as us, who is really trying to earn a living the same as anyone else.
And the good bit is it's my money that pay's to advertise on here at over £200 per month.. very well spent isn't it!!!

 

[hawk20]

Well, what can i say??
Evolutionchips who do my maps are part of motorsport developments who have been in the industry of modifying and tuning for many years, and are regarded as one of the best in UK..
I have never been on a forum where there is sooooo much negativity regarding remapping!
I could understand it if you had personal experience of a "bad" remap or didn't get what you were promised from one.
So, with such negative comments it's no wonder I haven't had anyone requiring a remap off these forums.. But you probably think that's good as your saving someone from having spent there hard earned on such as us, who is really trying to earn a living the same as anyone else.
And the good bit is it's my money that pay's to advertise on here at over £200 per month.. very well spent isn't it!!!

What you could say is that you will have your chips scientifically tested by a reputable body before making ludicrous claims like a 15% fuel saving.

Brabus have also been in the business many years and work closely with MB. But they do not make such claims.

 

[*Thumper]

It's a bit like the press ...... full of negativity, and falsehoods ........... whilst the majority stay silent ................... some of the arguments against, are just laughable, in their lack of engineering understanding ............. I love the "if it's that good, why don't MB do it" ................ just imagine the options list if you took every aftermarket product and put it in the brochure ...............

You just can't win over some people ........... then again, why would you want to .......... If they were that knowledgeable about MB's ...... they'd be a professional spanner ..... and unless someone can correct me ........ not one pro spannerman, has said don't get one fitted !!

 

[hawk20]

It's a bit like the press ...... full of negativity, and falsehoods ........... whilst the majority stay silent ................... some of the arguments against, are just laughable, in their lack of engineering understanding ............. I love the "if it's that good, why don't MB do it" ................ just imagine the options list if you took every aftermarket product and put it in the brochure ...............

You just can't win over some people ........... then again, why would you want to .......... If they were that knowledgeable about MB's ...... they'd be a professional spanner ..... and unless someone can correct me ........ not one pro spannerman, has said don't get one fitted !!

Thumper that argument is beneath you. Unless you are on commission. People can use their brains even if they are not a spanner man.
Now use yours. Don't you think that if MB with the aid of Brabus the famous chip firm, could improve economy by 15% with a simple chip, don't you think they would do it? They lose sales because of business taxation on emissions and lose private customers who are scared off higher VED bands and high fuel consumption. They have just spent a foirtune on the A class just to get 7-10% better economy and on the ML to get about 6%. Think.

 

[hawk20]

And if the product really does save 15% of fuel, why not get the scientific tests done. If What Car or Which said it really does work and no harm to the engine etc we would all buy one.

It is the gullible who allowed snake oil to sell so well. My biscuits do the same for less money. Enroll now.

 

[*Thumper]

You keep going on about what car and which ................ do you buy those mags ?? ..... cos they have Both done reviews, on the remapp market ........... someone even posted a hyperlink a couple of weeks ago ! .......

You obviously have your own opinion, on remaps .............. dont keep ramming it down our throats ................ your wrong !

Next you'll have us belive that aftermarket flywheels, filters and cranks, dont imporve performance and fuel economy !! .......... cos MB don't sell em !

 

[psmart]

Well, what can i say??
Evolutionchips who do my maps are part of motorsport developments who have been in the industry of modifying and tuning for many years, and are regarded as one of the best in UK..
I have never been on a forum where there is sooooo much negativity regarding remapping!
I could understand it if you had personal experience of a "bad" remap or didn't get what you were promised from one.
So, with such negative comments it's no wonder I haven't had anyone requiring a remap off these forums.. But you probably think that's good as your saving someone from having spent there hard earned on such as us, who is really trying to earn a living the same as anyone else.
And the good bit is it's my money that pay's to advertise on here at over £200 per month.. very well spent isn't it!!!

Keep it up steve, your in a field few understand, so witchcraft will always burble off the uninformeds lips.

You helping to sponsor a damn good site and people like myself will go for an upgrade (on the 500) in due course. Wont touch the 220cdi upgrade as I dont think the clutch/gearbox will stand the torque increase.

 

[Dosco]

I am enjoying this post it is one of those that gets the juices flowing - so to speak:lol: as to whether such accoutrements work well I have no idea what I do know though is if I had fitted every fuel saving device I have ever seen advertised over the last 50yrs of motoring I would by now be sucking out the 'go juice' from the tank as I would be producing more than I was burning

 

[dbean]

Taken me a while to get though this post but enjoyable reading it has been. For my twopenneth I know of a few people who have had their diesels chipped (not mercs though) and all have been very pleased with the power and tourque increases but none have claimed to have seen big increases in mpg levels. I suspect this is because they drove their cars with enthusiasm afterwards (fair play) rather than they didn't see the benefit at the pumps in normal driving.

Perhaps this is one of those horses for courses issues. If you get your car chipped and enjoy the extra oomph then you won't see the good times at the pumps. Can't have your cake and eat it so to speak.

Which brings me back to those biscuits mentioned earlier. May I suggest a light cinnemon dusting!?!

 

[psmart]

I am enjoying this post it is one of those that gets the juices flowing - so to speak:lol: as to whether such accoutrements work well I have no idea what I do know though is if I had fitted every fuel saving device I have ever seen advertised over the last 50yrs of motoring I would by now be sucking out the 'go juice' from the tank as I would be producing more than I was burning

Yes, but people are forgetting one crucial fact, the guys in question, re-mappers, are changing the brains, electronic brains, which control down to a fine level the actuation of the internal combustion engine.

The re-mappers can, if they so desire, throttle fuel back to really small levels and change the turbo boost in the process, ok, less power, but better economy. Consider, that my ML270 with the BPCVT de-activated (ie. no active turbo control) attained just short of 40mpg with 2.5 tonne payload....... not snake oil but fact.

 

[sr-performancelive..]

Ok, who wants a remap?
A 2001-2006 diesel,I will remap it, you pay for my fuel to get to you, you then have your car remapped which I will have to pay evolution for the modified map. not you. then you drive it for a week and if your happy with it, you pay for the remap..less the petrol cost. if your not I can take it off. it wont have cost you anything , except for my fuel.. and i'm out of pocket, but I am willing to chance it that you are honest enough to give it a good evaluation...
Any takers????????