I've decided to get my E350 M272 engine rebuilt.

[Conor]

He lives in London occasionally…
So that’s a “No”

And I also recall sitting at the lights on more than one occasion wondering if the engine is still actually running, needing to blip the throttle to check. It's smooth.

 

[Conor]

Engine work is very expensive, if you pay to have it done professionally. There is a lot of labour involved, and a lot of parts, most of which are quite expensive. Any reputable engine builder will want to renew everything "while they are in there", especially on a 200k engine. They will not want to reassemble used/worn parts, their reputation is at stake.

If you watch Tyrell's classic workshop channel on YouTube, it will give you some idea of what is involved, so £20k for a Lambo V12 engine rebuild would be getting off lightly.

Engine removal would only save a couple of hours labour for a professional workshop. That will not really offset the cost of a rebuild much. They will probably prefer to do it themselves in any case.

I realise you are attached to the car, but in my view this is not an economic repair if you have to pay someone to do it.

I would be either looking to try to do it myself, (which I would enjoy) or looking for another car at this point.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do. I think we've all been through similar dilemmas and disappointments, I know I have.

Fair commentary, but I don't think getting another car is the answer either.

It's not about being attached to the car, it's more about the amount of money I would need to spend to get something equivalent and reliable.

I need to do some research on options and perhaps the answer might just be to leave it as is.. because one things for sure.. Each year I drive it as is with current engine setup, it's getting very cheap motoring for what the car is, in reality.

 

[L John]

If you decide on replacement engine be sure it's not in the affected range for balancer gear issues.
Mines an M272 and that was my biggest worry after buying it but luckily it was outside the affected range.

 

[Conor]

Just an idea..

If I leave the car idle for a long time and then put the boot down, the engine knocks and causes misfire codes for cylinders 2 and 3 - always these two.

Perhaps it's the valves in these cylinders that are causing all the trouble?

I'm also starting to see that the engine work, when done properly and thoroughly is a big deal. I see a couple of hours alone could easily spent measuring all the components of the engine against spec.

I know i'm just hypothesising at this point, just curious what people thing.

 

[L John]

Just curios, it should run well on regular but have you tried super?
You said the valve stems are shot on at least two cylinders so oil will probably be getting to the spark plugs and sooting up causing a missfire.

 

[Conor]

Just curios, it should run well on regular but have you tried super?
You said the valve stems are shot on at least two cylinders so oil will probably be getting to the spark plugs and sooting up causing a missfire.

Actually, I did try a fill of super when back in the UK last week - it is fantastic stuff and made a big difference to general driveability and responsiveness. Nothing related to my issue though.

The misfire only happens when I have idled for a while and put the boot down - causing a huge cloud of smoke and knocking and misfire. Once I clear the code it's all normal until I let it idle too long again.

I've been meaning to pull all the plugs and see what is what.

 

[SL63 Mark]

I know i'm just hypothesising at this point, just curious what people thing.

I think you need to get the engine looked at and properly diagnosed. Then you can make an informed decision about what needs doing, and whether it is worth while.

 

[Conor]

I think you need to get the engine looked at and properly diagnosed. Then you can make an informed decision about what needs doing, and whether it is worth while.

I agree. Until then i'm just blabbering.. the problem is where I am it's difficult to find anybody. I have a couple of leads on places and hopefully in the coming weeks i'll be able to get to see somebody.

 

[steveq]

I think if it was me, I would just keep putting in the oil and watch out for a replacement engine to come on the market.

On a quick look, I saw that someone was selling a complete engine with all ancillaries with only 11,000 miles on it (not proven of course) for £3,000.
It is an 272 but only 3.0 litres so not suitable for you. But still, there will be other correct engines if you can wait.

Fitting it would still be a very significant project either for you or for a garage to undertake.

I'm not sure how your ECU would react to a different engine or what is required to get it to work correctly.
Access to STAR is mandatory, I assume?

 

[SL63 Mark]

I agree. Until then i'm just blabbering.. the problem is where I am it's difficult to find anybody. I have a couple of leads on places and hopefully in the coming weeks i'll be able to get to see somebody.

Most of my family on my Dad's side live in the ROI, he is from Cashel, co. Tipperary. It's a lovely place, but not too many MB specialists.

 

[Conor]

I think if it was me, I would just keep putting in the oil and watch out for a replacement engine to come on the market.

On a quick look, I saw that someone was selling a complete engine with all ancillaries with only 11,000 miles on it (not proven of course) for £3,000.
It is an 272 but only 3.0 litres so not suitable for you. But still, there will be other correct engines if you can wait.

Fitting it would still be a very significant project either for you or for a garage to undertake.

I'm not sure how your ECU would react to a different engine or what is required to get it to work correctly.
Access to STAR is mandatory, I assume?

That's a good shout I suppose. I suppose I can start building a list of people who might get one and keep contacting them every month.

I must say I quite like the engine that's in it now I've really gotten used to 292 BHP as a daily. Although i'm not sure it's putting out that figure anymore.

Thanks

 

[Conor]

Just been quoted £2785 + VAT for a 68k mile unit (which excludes ancillaries)

That's the kind of ante I was expecting for an engine tbh and if that's the case, I think £5k would be much better spent on getting work done on mine.

But that said, I have no idea how much various works will cost. Need to get a handle on that first.

I think next order of business is to get some oil analysis and leakdown test done.

 

[steveq]

Most of my family on my Dad's side live in the ROI, he is from Cashel, co. Tipperary. It's a lovely place, but not too many MB specialists.

I agree, Cashel and its surrounds are lovely.

There are a few MB specialists dotted around the country with probably most in Dublin.
That said an engine rebuild is pretty heavy duty stuff and I doubt if many (or any) do it on a regular basis.

The 3.5 litre petrol engine in Conor's car is unusual here but you never know.

 

[LostKiwi]

Engine work is actually pretty straightforward providing you are methodical and careful.

First thing.
Valve stem seals are easy to replace in situ if you are careful. Remove spark plug and set that cylinder to near TDC (just before). If you have access to a good continuous high pressure air source fit an adapter to the sparkplug hole, turn engine to TDC, turn on the air supply. You can now carefully remove the valve spring cap and spring(s) and change the seal before reassembling. If the retainer is stuck to the collets a light tap on the retainer with a hammer should free them.
If you don't have high pressure air feed a length of polypropylene cord into the spark plug hole then turn to TDC. Follow the rest of the procedure.
You may or may not need to fabricate a tool to remove the spring cap and you may or may not need to remove the camshaft. Note only the inlet valve has oil seals.
Carbon build up on direct injection engines is common. Walnut blasting can be used to remove the carbon from the inlet ports without the need for disassembly.

If you go down the head removal route it becomes far more work and expense.

If you do go down the removal route you may as well go to town on it. New guides, lap in the valves (easy to do yourself), and if you're feeling brave and flush a nice port and polish job....
Add in some reprofiled cams and watch the fun begin

If doing the strip down yourself don't use a Merc specialist for the engine work. You need a motor engineer. I can find out a reputable one to use in the Midlands if it's any help as MrsLK uses them all the time for doing their classic engines. JRM in Daventry comes to mind.

 

[davemercedes]

Just curios, it should run well on regular but have you tried super?
You said the valve stems are shot on at least two cylinders so oil will probably be getting to the spark plugs and sooting up causing a missfire.

 

[Conor]

Engine work is actually pretty straightforward providing you are methodical and careful.

First thing.
Valve stem seals are easy to replace in situ if you are careful. Remove spark plug and set that cylinder to near TDC (just before). If you have access to a good continuous high pressure air source fit an adapter to the sparkplug hole, turn engine to TDC, turn on the air supply. You can now carefully remove the valve spring cap and spring(s) and change the seal before reassembling. If the retainer is stuck to the collets a light tap on the retainer with a hammer should free them.
If you don't have high pressure air feed a length of polypropylene cord into the spark plug hole then turn to TDC. Follow the rest of the procedure.
You may or may not need to fabricate a tool to remove the spring cap and you may or may not need to remove the camshaft. Note only the inlet valve has oil seals.
Carbon build up on direct injection engines is common. Walnut blasting can be used to remove the carbon from the inlet ports without the need for disassembly.

If you go down the head removal route it becomes far more work and expense.

If you do go down the removal route you may as well go to town on it. New guides, lap in the valves (easy to do yourself), and if you're feeling brave and flush a nice port and polish job....
Add in some reprofiled cams and watch the fun begin

If doing the strip down yourself don't use a Merc specialist for the engine work. You need a motor engineer. I can find out a reputable one to use in the Midlands if it's any help as MrsLK uses them all the time for doing their classic engines. JRM in Daventry comes to mind.

Ok, it's Tuesday morning and my current thinking is that i'm going to pull the engine and use the rope method to change just the valve stem seals and try and do a de-coke too, if I can find a mobile business that will come and walnut blast.

After reviewing the symptoms of piston rings vs stem seals, my symptoms are an identical match for stem seals so will be going at them first.

I'm going to keep the head on also I see that on the M113 anyway, you can do so without the removing the cams. Meaning I won't need to re-time. If the timing is lost then i'll probably get a new chain and guides as they are probably worn.

It will be an engine out as I imagine it will just be a lot easier really and the whole engine block and bay area is soiled from older oil leaks. Be nice to give it a good clean.

Just need to sort out this Clio first, which is still a singular piece of unpaintined metal. :/

YOLO, Right!?

 

[LostKiwi]

HOW TO: Valve Seal Replacement - MBWorld.org Forums

W211 AMG - HOW TO: Valve Seal Replacement - I've been chasing some oil consumption gremlins in my 54K mile E55 for a while now. Having a car that burns a quart of oil every 1000 miles might be within spec , but it still ****es me off. I'm used to the Japanese import cars that burn...

mbworld.org

Sadly no pics but the write-up is good.

 

[Conor]

Thanks LK.

Anybody know what the deal is with timing and why people say it's a big deal on this engine? Is it because there are loads of things that need to be adjusted and set and plenty of opportunity for error?

Also, is basic timing all that is needed and then the ECU can compensate to a finer level, i.e. Why it is called "basic timing"?

 

[Conor]

Ok..

So I have been back to the local engine specialist. He comes from a family people who have lived and breathed engines and motorsport. I went to him before Christmas and he didn't seem interested in doing the job at all.. as I would have needed him to take the car in and remove engine.

Today I went back to him, now that I can remove the engine myself and provide just that to him. He was very amenable to doing the work and asked that I source the parts etc and then just get him to labour it. His finger in the air pricing didn't seem crazy for work including changing the piston rings.

This is a great result and I suppose for him, the job went from being a pain that would see a car take up space in his garage to just another engine job.

So we are heading down the route of getting a rebuild done now, locally which is great.

 

[davemercedes]

Well done Conor - that means you're Project Manger of yolur own destiny as well!
- Best of luck withit all...