Total failure to proceed - no drive in 'Drive'

[Zarniwoop]

Hi all,

Had a most upsetting breakdown last night. My previously very reliable 2002 CLK 270CDi had a sudden failure to proceed, with Drive no longer living up to its name.

Basically, I stopped at a roundabout, and when I tried to pull away again the engine just revved without the gearbox ever transferring drive to the wheels. I turned the engine off and on again, and regained enough drive to get another half mile down the road, at which point I felt it going again and had to pull over. To cut a long story short, I had to leave increasingly longer and longer periods with the engine off before restarting in order to get a bit further down the road. Fortunately we weren't too for from my parents' house, so we nursed the car there and left it.

The symptoms were, as I say, no drive to the wheels. And towards the end of the journey some ominous smoke coming out from under the bonnet, which I suspect may have been hot ATF fluid. There were no ominous noises or warning lights.

Am a bit annoyed with myself that, despite knowing that the car hadn't been brilliantly cared for, I changed all the other fluids but never quite got around to the gearbox in the 6 months or so since buying it.

Anyway, my question are as follows, and as always I'd be very grateful for any and all advice...

- Does this sound like low ATF fluid? Or does it sound more serious?

- Should I start by just topping up to see what that does? My initial thought was to top up and then do a full gearbox fluid change if topping up seems to help.

- What do the dipstick pipe and fill pipe look like on my particular car? I don't believe I've ever knowingly spotted them. Anyone got a photo?

- What is the total fluid capacity needed? I've read several values, including one which stated the capacity for the torque converter and gearbox separately. Are they separate reservoirs, with separate drain points and fillers?

Please forgive my ignorance - this is the first auto car I've ever owned, so I'm not very familiar with what is going on in there, mechanically speaking. Was broadly assuming that the gearbox and torque converter share the same fluid, but maybe that's wrong. Am also hoping that the lack of bad noises point to a lack of fluid rather than something more terminal, but again perhaps that's wishful thinking!

 

[V6Matty]

Certainly sounds like it’s very low on fluid, get a dipstick of eBay and also a service kit from Mercedes (they do a service kit for them at a very reasonable price)
The 5g box holds 7 litres of fluid if I remember correctly, plus about another 1.5 in the tc

 

[alexanderfoti]

As above, do check that you havent got a rusting cooler line leaking etc. Its unusual for them to leak signifcant amounts of fluid without something causing it.

 

[oigle]

Had similar with my ML270. Turned out to be blocked orifices in the valve body and metallic fragments in sump. Cleanen it all out and, with a wing and a prayer, refilled and tested. Has run perfectly since. That was 6 months ago and still OK. Still don't know source of brassy appearance fragments in sump. If it had been manual, I'd have said synchro rings but auto doesn't have them and I have no idea where there is brass in an auto.
Ian.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Thanks for the info guys. I've ordered a service kit and a dipstick, so we'll see what happens.

Can anyone answer my question regarding the torque converter - is it a separate reservoir of ATF? And if so, why?

 

[alexanderfoti]

Its not a seperate res, but it holds the most oil after the sump and is a big part of the capacity.

If you have run it dry, you will have likely emptied it.

 

[Zarniwoop]

OK, thanks, that makes sense

 

[AnthonyUK]

Can anyone answer my question regarding the torque converter - is it a separate reservoir of ATF? And if so, why?

To add to Alex' comment, is often listed separately as it also requires draining if you want to change all the fluid rather than just that in the sump.
My S203 from the same year had a similar issue where drive just 'didn't' and I had the gearbox rebuilt as although it was nearly £2.5k the rest of the car is fine.
Once stripped the specialist thought it had previously has issues with overheating which was likely caused by ATF contaminated from coolant due to an issue with radiators from around this time.
If it isn't fluid level then you are looking at some outlay if you want to keep it.
You could probably replace it with one from a breakers but could end up in the same position a little later.

 

[mioba]

First thing I would be inclined to do is get under the car and looking for any signs that something is not right.

Did the car\box sound ok when you "nursed" it to your parents.

Based on the threads above it seems 50-50 (a box service or a an overhaul). There is no way I would drive if stuck in that situation. The box has to in effect drive the car and I hope the forcing it home did not damage anything.

There are lots of vids on you tube for the oil change, which will help no end.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[ajlsl600]

If u were running it dry u should "smell" that in the oil. If u do Yr very likely to have cooked the clutches, look in sump filter for any debris, metal. If any there ur lookin a fair bit of work. If not re fill and try for cost of fluid and filter. Any oil stains on under side of car?

 

[Zarniwoop]

Hi all

Just thought I would give a quick update. Headed over to my parents house after work today to try and get the gearbox oil changed.

Removing the undertray revealed a lot of nasty looking liquid around the sump, but no obvious single place where it may or may not have been leaking from.

Almost fell at the first hurdle when the sump plug wouldn't budge! Before completely destroying the hex hole in the plug I decided a safer (but messier) bet might be to just drop the sump with it still full. In the end it wasn't too bad, mess wise. What was bad was what came out - 4 litres of the worst tasting chocolate milk you've ever seen. Crikey.

In my eight months or so owning this car so far, I have come to realise that the previous owner was an absolute liar. Always depressing when somebody comes across as a thoroughly decent bloke when they're selling a car, only to find out later that they were lying through their teeth about how they looked after it!

So anyway, I've now left that to drain overnight in the hopes that some more liquid may come out, as there is no drain plug in the torque converter as far as I can see.

Ideally I don't want to top up with nice fresh ATF if it is going to be immediately mixed with a litre or so of the aforementioned nasty chocolate milk! I have rotated the engine by hand a couple of times but it didn't seem to pump very much more dirty fluid out of the 'box.

Looks like somebody has sealed the sump plug with something and that is why it wouldn't come undone. Since I need the car and I don't have a spare sump and/or plug handy I'm going to have to put it back as is. On the plus side I guess it isn't going to leak from the sump plug anytime soon!

The one remaining problem I have is that my dipstick still hasn't arrived in the post and there is a Royal Mail strike tomorrow. I would really like to fill the gearbox back up and drive back home, but it will obviously end up being guesswork how much fluid I put in. Not sure what to do about that...

 

[Wearsafoxhat]

If your dip stick does not arrive, why not put in around 90% of the recommended amount in and gently drive around the block and see how it feels, sounds. Better to wait if you are not happy with that, or home is too far.


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[Zarniwoop]

My main worry is that I might accidentally overfill the box. Because the torque converter doesn't have a drain plug it's a bit of a mystery how much fluid might be hanging around in that.

Does anyone know where the marks are from the end on the gearbox dipstick? I'm wondering if I can bodge a solution to give me a rough guide how close I am to full - maybe a length of wire, perhaps? If I can find something thin and flexible that would go down the tube then I might be able to get a good enough idea to feel safe driving it the 5 miles home.

To be fair, there probably isn't much I could do that would be worse for the 'box than the brown milk that came out!

 

[grahamcol]

My main worry is that I might accidentally overfill the box. Because the torque converter doesn't have a drain plug it's a bit of a mystery how much fluid might be hanging around in that.

Does anyone know where the marks are from the end on the gearbox dipstick? I'm wondering if I can bodge a solution to give me a rough guide how close I am to full - maybe a length of wire, perhaps? If I can find something thin and flexible that would go down the tube then I might be able to get a good enough idea to feel safe driving it the 5 miles home.

To be fair, there probably isn't much I could do that would be worse for the 'box than the brown milk that came out!

Search this site because I'm pretty sure there's mention of using curtain wire as a substitute dipstick. There's also mention of how far up the level should be.

 

[Blobcat]

Search this site because I'm pretty sure there's mention of using curtain wire as a substitute dipstick. There's also mention of how far up the level should be.

We did the ATF change on 1997 W210

Did the job today, although I was really a spectator as my mate did most of the work. Its actually quite straightforward, and I took some piccies as well. Most of the piccies are from the rear, looking forward (you can see the exhaust and cat on the right). 1) Make sure the engine and...

forums.mercedesclub.org.uk

 

[Zarniwoop]

Search this site because I'm pretty sure there's mention of using curtain wire as a substitute dipstick. There's also mention of how far up the level should be.

Apologies - was having a senior moment I think, and it genuinely hadn't occurred to me to do a search of the site. Fortunately the keywords of 'dipstick' and 'curtain' did the trick. For anyone interested, this thread has an excellent diagram - https://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/index.php?threads/dipstick-for-auto-transmission-box.50467/

 

[spenttherent]

This might help

 

[harrye500]

If no TC drain, could be worth changing the fluid and filter, driving a bit as per wearsafoxhat recommendation then doing it all again. A little vulgar and wasteful/expensive fluid wise plus time consuming, but would help to dilute most of that chocolate gunk and provide more peace of mind.

 

[Steve@Avantgarde]

Wondering if the radiator has burst its cooler and dumped coolant into the tranny.

Been such a long time I cant remember if the CLK has a seperate oil cooler for the transmission but Im fairly sure they were internal in the Rad.

 

[V6Matty]

Wondering if the radiator has burst its cooler and dumped coolant into the tranny.

Been such a long time I cant remember if the CLK has a seperate oil cooler for the transmission but Im fairly sure they were internal in the Rad.

Being the 612 I thought they were separate like the 646, I think it was the 647 that was integral, but I could be wrong