Flat Battery, can't open vehicle

[tommymac]

Ok. 4 on your pic will fire up the starter motor (but it won't be engaged so will just spin, but it's very high current so beware). 6 engages the starter solenoid with a large clack or clunk, but as there isn't 12v on 4 at the same time the engine won't turn over. 5 is the one you want. You may have a small spark as it connects but that's down to a few modules powering up and the booster trying to charge the battery.
Anywhere else will be a direct short across the booster and must be avoided.

Got it, I think. Just to summarise my understanding, to avoid any uncertainty:

5 - this is the one.
6 or 4 - will make a little noise, but not do anything useful
Anything else - likely to fry the smart charger

Let me know if this incorect.

 

[LostKiwi]

Got it, I think. Just to summarise my understanding, to avoid any uncertainty:

5 - this is the one.
6 or 4 - will make a little noise, but not do anything useful
Anything else - likely to fry the smart charger

Let me know if this incorect.

Yep, correct.

 

[M80]

I'm affraid I'm going to confuse this some more.
From the earlier photo I was thinking that the cable '3' was going to a hidden terminal, that may have had a cap on it.

Now I believe that '3' is passing behind the starter, is wrapped around it and re appears to connect to '6'. This being the correct terminal to apply the donor +12volts to.

I beleive '5' will be the 'trigger' from the ignition switch to engage the solenoid.

Not clear, but I see '4' as being the solenoid output to drive the starter, via a short link.

As I see it.
Power to '5' and that will cause the solenoid to click as it energizes. But no positive effect otherwise.
Power to '4' ad the starter will spin, if there is enough power available.
Power to '6' and after a short period the doors can be unlocked.

Any incorrect connection will only be a variation of the above with no ill effect, but might cause some surprise to the nervous op.

Still with luck we'll all be wiser tomorrow.

 

[LostKiwi]

I'm affraid I'm going to confuse this some more.
From the earlier photo I was thinking that the cable '3' was going to a hidden terminal, that may have had a cap on it.

Now I believe that '3' is passing behind the starter, is wrapped around it and re appears to connect to '6'. This being the correct terminal to apply the donor +12volts to.

I beleive '5' will be the 'trigger' from the ignition switch to engage the solenoid.

Not clear, but I see '4' as being the solenoid output to drive the starter, via a short link.

As I see it.
Power to '5' and that will cause the solenoid to click as it energizes. But no positive effect otherwise.
Power to '4' ad the starter will spin, if there is enough power available.
Power to '6' and after a short period the doors can be unlocked.

Any incorrect connection will only be a variation of the above with no ill effect, but might cause some surprise to the nervous op.

Still with luck we'll all be wiser tomorrow.

Per this pic I'm sure 5 is correct:

Circuit 30 is permanent 12v.
You'll note circuit 30 is a 13mm(?) but on an M8 stud whilst circuit 50 is smaller (11mm nut on M6?).

 

[Oldspanners]

Lever the plastic cap off with a screw driver apply the 12 volt supply as per the video and your in.
You can do it!

 

[LostKiwi]

Just to add:
Internally the solenoid typically looks like this:

The contacts are 180 degrees apart to maintain a balanced set of forces on the contacts when the solenoid is operated.

 

[Tony Dyson]

Thanks Tony and Lost Kiwi, number 5 does appear to have a cap, let me see if i can prise it off tomorrow.

How would you suggest testing for a voltage?

This is my charger:

https://www.amazon.com/Arteck-18000mAh-Portable-External-Automotive/dp/B01LXC8SPF

What would be the likely impact of applying this to the wrong terminal?

For your own peace of mind a simple tester such as this model, simply apply the crocodile clip to a Chassis Negative reference and use the probe to look for a voltage on the terminals 5 after you've removed the black cap and terminal 6 for confirmation, then apply a supply voltage from your jump starter to the terminal that illuminated your tester and use your keyfob to unlock your car.

https://www.toolstation.com/car-light-tester/p84459 The tester will illuminate at between 6 and 24 Volts

 

[davidsl500]

According to the spec of the Arteck booster there is built in protection against short circuiting so at least it won't go bang if you accidentally cross leads...

 

[tommymac]

According to the spec of the Arteck booster there is built in protection against short circuiting so at least it won't go bang if you accidentally cross leads...

Ok. So here’s what’s under the cap. Next we apply the power!

must admit that I don’t understand the voltage test step. There is no power, the battery is completely dead. Even the clock on the dashboard has stopped. I can’t see what we are testing for if there is no power.

 

[EmilysDad]

how to get into a locked car ...... day 6

 

[M80]

If you can feel a cable to the termianl unfder the cap that is heavier duty than your '3' then LK is correct that that is the termial you need to apply 12v to.

In my defence the 'trigger' cable we see looks heavier duty than needed for that job.

 

[tommymac]

If you can feel a cable to the termianl unfder the cap that is heavier duty than your '3' then LK is correct that that is the termial you need to apply 12v to.

In my defence the 'trigger' cable we see looks heavier duty than needed for that job.

To be honest I can’t feel anything. I can barely get my finger there. Do we still go for this, or are there second thoughts creeping in?

I’ve gone the coward’s way, and attached a wire!

 

[EmilysDad]

If I was unable to get into my car so far, I'd be back on the phone to my recovery company & tell them that the advice previously given of drilling the lock is unacceptable and ask for someone that knows what he's doing to come out.
Are you sure the emergency blade(s) are correct for the car? eg has a lock been changed at some time previously? You're not the only one that has had the problem of a completely flat battery ....

 

[tommymac]

ok, nothing. can't guarantee the integrity of the wire, so guess it's the screwdriver next.

re the breakdown company, yes I've made a formal complaint, and await them to deal with it.

I've never used the blades before, and had the car for 7 years. It had only had light use by the previous owner, I'm not aware of them having needed to change locks

 

[M80]

Nothing wrong with the wire method, or the screwdriver.

If you got nothing touching '5' that may not be a problem. Did you wait for a while for energy to transfer into, your large and so slow to build voltage, battery?

 

[Tony Dyson]

Ok. So here’s what’s under the cap. Next we apply the power!

must admit that I don’t understand the voltage test step. There is no power, the battery is completely dead. Even the clock on the dashboard has stopped. I can’t see what we are testing for if there is no power.

Well by way of explanation, the £2 tester would likely pick up a residual voltage from the battery and possibly given you an indication of the correct terminal to use and is virtually indestructible, I could have advised a cheap multimeter but with you not being too familiar with electricity and it's intricacies could have easily blown one of those up! It was however for your peace of mind which isn't really necessary, get the power onto T5 with the Black Negative connected to the chassis/Block, let the battery soak up some juice and unlock the car!

 

[tommymac]

Nothing wrong with the wire method, or the screwdriver.

If you got nothing touching '5' that may not be a problem. Did you wait for a while for energy to transfer into, your large and so slow to build voltage, battery?

Waited until the smart charger switched itself off, and tried this a few times.

Trying to attempt the screwdriver route, but there just isn't room to get it in there with the clamp on and with light too. Can't see a thing, and don't want to poke a live charge into the wrong places. Am completely stumped as to where I go from here

 

[M80]

Are you sure your charger is putting out 12 volts?
If you have this 'maintenance' facility it's strange it switches off.

I would try splashing the charger outputs together, in the hope of seeing sparks.
That should at least show voltage until it switches off.

 

[tommymac]

Are you sure your charger is putting out 12 volts?
If you have this 'maintenance' facility it's strange it switches off.

I would try splashing the charger outputs together, in the hope of seeing sparks.
That should at least show voltage until it switches off.

seriously? can I just check that you really want me to try this? what will it prove?

unit is definitely working. a neighbour (the one who 'kindly' shut my bonnet for me while I was away) used it to start his car while I was away.

 

[tommymac]

I know I keep asking the same question, but thought I'd try again: can anyone advise where the cable from the bonnet release runs through the engine compartment. I feel that this is my best option, to find this and pull it. Thanks