The saga is almost over - 2005, C220 CDI Classic SE, S203.208 (Estate), OM646.963 Engine

[Blobcat]

To get a sheared off bolt out? Really?



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To not get it sheared in the first place...

 

[LostKiwi]

No need to remove the disc from the hub unless the disc is damaged, worn or incorrect.
The only way to check if the bearing is correctly fitted is to undo the adjustment nut and outer bearing. Clean the hole and check for a gap between the outer ring of the inner bearing and the step inside the hub. There should be no gap. If there is a gap you need to pull the hub off the stub axle. This is sometimes easy and often not. If it's not the seal behind the hub will get damaged and need replacing. Sometimes the inner bearing race will stick to the stub axle and be difficult to remove, often requiring a bearing puller. To be honest at this point you may as well replace the wheel bearing as you've done 90% of the work and the inner bearing is likely damaged. To replace the bearing knock out the outer race from the other side using a pin punch or similar. Hitting alternate sides and working around the bearing will soon get it out. Cut a slot through the old bearing outer (this will be obvious why later).
Fit the new bearing outer and tap it in. Using the old bearing outer as a drift you can tap it fully home until you hear it hit the step. NB, everything must be clean whilst doing this! Repeat for the other side. Grease everything up, insert the inner bearing race into the hub and carefully tap in the new seal (I find a flat clean piece of wood to be perfect). Tap the seal in so it is flush to the hub. Do not tap it in as far as it will go! Push the hub back onto the stub axle and grease, reassemble and adjust the other side. Proceed as before to adjust.bearing and refit dust seal.

 

[NBurns]

Impact driver is a useful tool

I even used one of those on the two bigger bolts. Didn't shift them.


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[NBurns]

To not get it sheared in the first place...

It was done by a previous owner or garage.


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[NBurns]

Impact driver is a useful tool

Yes. Very. Until you get the inner calliper bolts that will not budge.


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[joderest]

Please excuse if this mentioned somewhere else, as have not read full thread.
It would appear the bolts you are having an issue with are the CALLIPER BRACKET BOLTS and not the bolts that hold the calliper to the bracket as photo shows them already out.
Yes, they can be very tight, and i have in the past had to use a 1 meter breaker bar and a fair bit of grunt pressure to release them.
To me , it would seem your disc's are not in the middle of the brackets, hence it appears the disc is running too close to the outside edge, i read somewhere that the disc's were replaced by PO or a dealer, could it be that the incorrect disc's were used ?, regarding the disc retaining bolts (screw) all they do is line the disc to the hub and hold it there whilst other bits are fitted, the wheel effectively holds the disc in place when on the car, however, the screws not being used could suggest that the person fitting the discs could not get them back in due to the disc's being incorrect. Have you checked to make sure that the holes line up ?

Just a few thoughts.

 

[alexanderfoti]

From the pictures:

The caliper bracket is solid, the sliders are on the left side and move with the caliper thats bolted to it.

The disc isnt bolted to the hub, without this, they sometimes "fall" off the hub face and look odd, press the disc up against the hub face and see if there is more of a gap. They do sit offset, eg, not in the center of the mounting bracket,

If the hub is not spinning freely with the caliper removed, then the bearings are faulty, too tight, or have foreign material in them.

 

[NBurns]

Please excuse if this mentioned somewhere else, as have not read full thread.
It would appear the bolts you are having an issue with are the CALLIPER BRACKET BOLTS and not the bolts that hold the calliper to the bracket as photo shows them already out.
Yes, they can be very tight, and i have in the past had to use a 1 meter breaker bar and a fair bit of grunt pressure to release them.
To me , it would seem your disc's are not in the middle of the brackets, hence it appears the disc is running too close to the outside edge, i read somewhere that the disc's were replaced by PO or a dealer, could it be that the incorrect disc's were used ?, regarding the disc retaining bolts (screw) all they do is line the disc to the hub and hold it there whilst other bits are fitted, the wheel effectively holds the disc in place when on the car, however, the screws not being used could suggest that the person fitting the discs could not get them back in due to the disc's being incorrect. Have you checked to make sure that the holes line up ?

Just a few thoughts.

You are absolutely correct there my friend. And no the holes do not appear to line up. Now somewhere I do have a breaker bar. If I could find that, my vernier calliper's and my torque wrench, that would be awesome!!!
So yes, it is the CALLIPER BRACKET BOLTS that are stuck on solid. And stopping me from inspecting the disc more closely to see if it 'Was' actually the right one.
The last lot of pads & discs were fitted by a good friend of mine in August 2017, for which I have the receipt still. As for asking him about this, yes, that could be a bit difficult as he and his partner are my ex's best friends. Sore subject there.



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[d215yq]

You are absolutely correct there my friend. And no the holes do not appear to line up. Now somewhere I do have a breaker bar. If I could find that, my vernier calliper's and my torque wrench, that would be awesome!!!
So yes, it is the CALLIPER BRACKET BOLTS that are stuck on solid. And stopping me from inspecting the disc more closely to see if it 'Was' actually the right one.
The last lot of pads & discs were fitted by a good friend of mine in August 2017, for which I have the receipt still. As for asking him about this, yes, that could be a bit difficult as he and his partner are my ex's best friends. Sore subject there.



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As I understand it, you now have a free spinning disc/wheel and have freed the slider pins on the bracket. So why not push the caliper in refit the pads and caliper and then put the wheel on and take it for a test drive. If it turns freely and it was just the jammed slider pins that were causing the binding then there is no need, for now atleast, to get involved in removing the bracket/disc, etc and you can wait until the pads/discs warp before bothering with that, which could well be 100k miles...To reassemble now would take about 10-15 minutes a side and then you could take it for a 500m test drive braking progressively and then jack up the car and check if wheel spins freely anbd problem is solved - that would surely take about 30 minutes in total so got to be worth it...

 

[NBurns]

As I understand it, you now have a free spinning disc/wheel and have freed the slider pins on the bracket. So why not push the caliper in refit the pads and caliper and then put the wheel on and take it for a test drive. If it turns freely and it was just the jammed slider pins that were causing the binding then there is no need, for now atleast, to get involved in removing the bracket/disc, etc and you can wait until the pads/discs warp before bothering with that, which could well be 100k miles...To reassemble now would take about 10-15 minutes a side and then you could take it for a 500m test drive braking progressively and then jack up the car and check if wheel spins freely anbd problem is solved - that would surely take about 30 minutes in total so got to be worth it...

I like your idea however I now know the root cause of the binding/grabbing. It is the brake disc which is being stopped from spinning freely by the brake calliper bracket on its outer edge. See my photos from yesterday. Thus I still need to get that off and inspect it. Plus I have not yet removed and inspected those pins. And won't be able now until either tomorrow or Friday.
But yes, that is exactly what I need to do once the root cause is auctioned.



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[d215yq]

I like your idea however I now know the root cause of the binding/grabbing. It is the brake disc which is being stopped from spinning freely by the brake calliper bracket on its outer edge. See my photos from yesterday. Thus I still need to get that off and inspect it. Plus I have not yet removed and inspected those pins. And won't be able now until either tomorrow or Friday.
But yes, that is exactly what I need to do once the root cause is auctioned.



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OK, if the brackets are catching then yes you need to address that.

I'm not sure you need to remove and inspect the pins: If they are now free soak them in brake cleaner and wipe off what you can and then grease them in situ - as long as they move they shouldn't cause brake binding and as you've already said they aren't the root cause anyway.

Are you sure as has been said the disc isn't catching because it is loose as it is not screwed in and would not catch when you put the wheel on? I only say that as I'm shocked someone would assemble it with the solid metal bravket ctaching the disc! OK, if someone reassembles it all and the pads are catching because of some sticking in the caliper/slider pins then fair enough as that's not obvious when you reassemble but reassembling it all knowing there's a solid bracket touching it?! Surely it was noticable when driving before the MOT picked it up?

 

[umblecumbuz]

Each caliper should slide freely on its locating bolts. It looks to me as though these have seized. The pads look reusable, with life left in them, so your main action should not be to worry about the other components (apart from giving the discs a clean-up with, say, 240 grade w&d.), and once you have got the calipers sliding sideways easily, your binding brakes should be no more.

Don't over think all this - the discs are fine and correct, so no need to remove them. The caliper pistons, as has been said and explained, need attention - but these two actions (pistons and caliper pins) are probably all you need do to get your brakes working efficiently and Mot compliant.

Don't go stripping everything down, just concentrate on those two essentials!
How pleased you'll be if you get this saga finished before another year has gone by!

 

[Jim2]

Each caliper should slide freely on its locating bolts. It looks to me as though these have seized. The pads look reusable, with life left in them, so your main action should not be to worry about the other components (apart from giving the discs a clean-up with, say, 240 grade w&d.), and once you have got the calipers sliding sideways easily, your binding brakes should be no more.

Don't over think all this - the discs are fine and correct, so no need to remove them. The caliper pistons, as has been said and explained, need attention - but these two actions (pistons and caliper pins) are probably all you need do to get your brakes working efficiently and Mot compliant.

Don't go stripping everything down, just concentrate on those two essentials!
How pleased you'll be if you get this saga finished before another year has gone by!

Agreed umblecumbuz, but I'd go a step further, and replace the caliphers...from the pic's the look far from healthy to me....even the colour looks wrong..heat? Rust? Disc's will be fine though with a bit of a clean up. So will the bearings, repack with grease and set the shim for tolerance.

 

[Botus]

.

if the caliper carrier is bottled on correctly and the discs are fitted correctly up against the hub (a small screw holds in place and they are then mounted firmly when the wheels are bolted up) - then there should be equidistant clearance between the disc and each side of the Carrier - in the picture its not

lets assume the disc is flush to its hub then a component is wrong (carrier / hub / disc or bearing)
running this close under load / small amount of wheel bearing play, the caliper carrier and the disc will touch

I see in another picture the disc retention screw is not in place... so it might be its not up against the hub correctly… but it u have this much rust you should probably makes sure it does seat correctly

 

[joderest]

you could always put it back together, see how it goes and take car to a local garage and ask them to slacken the calliper bracket bolts with a windy gun, and then just nip up again so you can then strip down at home.
I suspect they have been done up with a gun and hence they are so tight.
Might cost you a tenner, but you would gain in time and effort.

 

[umblecumbuz]

... there should be equidistant clearance between the disc and each side of the Carrier - in the picture its not.

I would expect that the sliding caliper was working fine right up until the car was laid up. If it had been seized for any kind of mileage, one pad would be worn right down, but the photos show that both pads have plenty of life left in them. The seizure seems to be recent therefore - possibly caused by exposure to water during the time the car was without wheels and up on blocks.

 

[Botus]

its not the wear I worry about it shouldn't have 0.5 mm one side and 5 mm the other this is the fixed element not the sliding bit

 

[NBurns]

Each caliper should slide freely on its locating bolts. It looks to me as though these have seized. The pads look reusable, with life left in them, so your main action should not be to worry about the other components (apart from giving the discs a clean-up with, say, 240 grade w&d.), and once you have got the calipers sliding sideways easily, your binding brakes should be no more.

Don't over think all this - the discs are fine and correct, so no need to remove them. The caliper pistons, as has been said and explained, need attention - but these two actions (pistons and caliper pins) are probably all you need do to get your brakes working efficiently and Mot compliant.

Don't go stripping everything down, just concentrate on those two essentials!
How pleased you'll be if you get this saga finished before another year has gone by!

Way way before then umblecumbuz. I need her to pass her Mot before the end of January.



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[NBurns]

I would expect that the sliding caliper was working fine right up until the car was laid up. If it had been seized for any kind of mileage, one pad would be worn right down, but the photos show that both pads have plenty of life left in them. The seizure seems to be recent therefore - possibly caused by exposure to water during the time the car was without wheels and up on blocks.

Like it is no 'Again'.



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[NBurns]

Not sure if I've posted these photos. So posting again.



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