W211 blue smoke after idle

[Kev555]

Yes, Bosch ones need coding. The recon route is a tetchy area. If a diy-er wants to have a go with them, that's fair enough. When you are running a business like I do, you need the job to be right first time. Choice of parts can influence that greatly, and your reputation can also suffer if you have to do a job twice. You can blame the parts, but ultimately I'm looking for customer delight, not just satisfaction.

Sorry meant to actually say i got a reconditioned replacements not my old ones back as i stated

 

[Kev555]

Yes, Bosch ones need coding. The recon route is a tetchy area. If a diy-er wants to have a go with them, that's fair enough. When you are running a business like I do, you need the job to be right first time. Choice of parts can influence that greatly, and your reputation can also suffer if you have to do a job twice. You can blame the parts, but ultimately I'm looking for customer delight, not just satisfaction.

Said like a true professional Uncle Benz

 

[Smithy530963]

So is that a definite.... recon injectors stopped the "smoking after 10mins idle"
I have a ML320 with over 77k on the clock. I don't think much maintenance has been done on this before I got it and I've been slowly working my way through all of the usual faults, oil cooler seals, swirl flap delete, bouncing door locks, filters and oil etc but just can't get to the bottom of this tick over smoke! In my case the engine runs sweet in all scenarios without smoking at all, apart from a small puff on hard acceleration, Starting from cold it ticks over quite happily however when up to temp after about 10-12 mins it starts the dreaded smoking. After a few hundred yards drive all goes back to normal with no smoke until left to tick over again. I have changed the PCV which was buggerd and the radial seal ring housing it fits into, the "O" ring was also buggered. What ever is causing this it is nothing to do with any crank case pressure as I bunged up the PCV to turbo pipe with a plug and fitted a long length of the right size pipe to the PCV outlet and ran it to the front of the car and out through the front grille. There was minimal "fumes" coming from the open pipe on cold start up. I ran this until the temp was up to normal and let it tick over... there was a small increase in the "fumes" from the open pipe end, but just what I would expect from a warmer engine, then after the 10-12 mins the smoke started just the same as before. It seems as if the fault, what ever it is, is just switched on then as it goes from no smoke to smoke without any gradual build up. I would have thought if it was oil accumulating somewhere and being induced into the air intake it would start light and then build up.
When I did the swirl flap delete I cleaned all the gunge out of the intake manifolds and the other pipework that I had removed with a steam cleaner, and there was an amazing amount of gunge in there, I filled a 1/2ltr ice cream carton so that's a lot!! There is a noticeable improvement in the cars get up and go now that it can breath a bit better. However I did not remove the EGR valve from the N/S intake manifold and am now wondering if its also full of gunge and not opening/closing correctly as the smoke doesn't really smell oily just "eye wateringly" of exhaust. So I've decided to pull it off and have a look... and I'm going to look into deleting the EGR too!
In the mean time I suppose I'd better start looking into some replacement injectors if I don't get any improvement in the situation.
I'll let you all know what the result is....
Have to say this is a great forum and I've learned a lot from the many threads, saving lots of time learning from others actions

 

[Uncle Benz]

I would remove the injectors and have them tested for dripping. It’s a quick and easy test. Removing the injectors will take longer.
Its the easiest start point, and you’ll know then, but I’m 90% sure its the injectors from your post alone

 

[matthew k]

I had a 2003 530d (mechanical injectors) a few years ago. I cured a very optimistic fuel computer and poor consumption by using a strong concentration of fuel cleaner over the course of a few 1/3 tank fulls. It honestly sorted it out, the computer stopped bullsxxting and I gained about 8 mpg or so. The fuel filter had recently been replaced.

I guess it's different with the modern pitzo injectors, but you never know, maybe a bit gunged up?

 

[Smithy530963]

Just re-read my post and the mileage should have been 177K, still what's an extra 100K to a Merc

 

[Smithy530963]

I think I read somewhere on this forum that the "Tips" of these injectors can be changed, will this fix this dripping problem and if that's the case will they have to be re-programmed (the injectors) into the ECU or will they be just the same values as before? I know my iCarsoft Pro does this but as yet I've never used that facility

 

[LostKiwi]

As I understand it the tips only affect spray pattern.

 

[Smithy530963]

Wouldn't think there would be much of a spray pattern from a dribbling injector, very poor atomisation in fact, causing an incomplete burn maybe... :-(

 

[Kev555]

Could be the injector is worn, possibly lost its parameters and as a result is over fuelling as well as a bad spray pattern. As Uncle Benz said above get them tested as its all guess work without it Smithy

 

[mark mills]

i had injectors tested and they came with new codes, you cant refurb these injectors with genuine parts and nowhere with a good reputation would even try i found. changed mine and it didnt fix the smoking after idle issue.

 

[Kev555]

i had injectors tested and they came with new codes, you cant refurb these injectors with genuine parts and nowhere with a good reputation would even try i found. changed mine and it didnt fix the smoking after idle issue.

If you got new injectors then sadly and obviously they were not the fault of the smoke Mark. The OP has tried and ruled out different things before turning to the injectors. Smoke at idle can be caused by different issues.

 

[Smithy530963]

Just been to see our local injector guru... seems Mark's post is correct. He told me that Bosch will not supply parts to refurb some of these injectors. I was told it was the cause of the smoke at tick over, he described the symptoms without me telling him, and to pull them out to get the part numbers to see if bits could be sourced to fix them. There was an add on e-bay for a set of 6 from a German company called "dieselfixneuss" I thought I'd cracked it but after paying for them they then asked for a further 300euro until I sent the originals back to them,(no mention of this in the add though!) sill quite cheap at £460+300euro compared to a new set from Mercedes. However the add on e-bay lists more than one part number (Fuel Injector Nozzle 6x Mercedes 0445115027 0445115064 A6420701387 0986435355) for my vehicle (W164, ML320, Reg2005)and I think its the first two with 044511 start on the number that our local Mr fix it said he can't get the parts for so I think I'll pull them all out next week and go from there. :-(

 

[Smithy530963]

I may be being a bit cynical but I'm sure once I paid the 300euro and the old injectors sent they would be telling me they are all unserviceable and therefore have no core value.... so about £750 for the six recon injectors. This German company probably doesn't deserve that line of thinking but in my world that's probably what will happen.

 

[Kev555]

I would think it will be Bosch themselves will be wanting your old injectors via the German company. They might not supply parts to injector specialists but probably overhaul them in house. As long as your injectors are intact ( not stripped or dismantled) and not damaged I would be fairly confident you will see your £300 Smithy

 

[Smithy530963]

Yes Kev quite possible... but the fact that I need them replacing would tell me that some/all of them are defective. So to put my cynical head on again it would seem to me buying the injectors + deposit for the exchange, Say £750 in total, if they aren't serviceable or fit for reconditioning I might as well just pay the £750 and keep the old injectors that still have an intrinsic value.
I have seen them go through E-Bay for between £50 to £80, even after stating they had been replaced and need testing.
I'm not saying this German company is doing this just to "score" a set of injectors but it does make you think, could be that only one or two of the old injectors are defective and if you have the expensive equipment to set these up then they can easily be tested

 

[Kev555]

Replacing injectors as a whole set has always been the right thing to do mechanically regardless of maybe one or two being passable Smithy. Some people nowadays just replace the faulty one owing to the massive price of injectors as its cost effective. Obviously if they are making £50 - £80 on E-bay thats probably the value of the shell. A lot of Diesel specialist companies only supply injectors with old returns this way.
https://www.pfjones.co.uk/diesel-fuel-pumps-and-injectors.html
Might as well get any money you can for them old injectors as they are worthless dust gatherers in your garage. If you wanted you could keep your injectors and pay for the in depth test at your local diesel specialist(think from memory it was £60 from my local) to have them tested and sell off the good ones with test certificate supplied. Depending on how many pass the test you might fair out worse off than returning them.

 

[Smithy530963]

Yes Kev, I didn't think of that... investing a few quid to get them tested afterward is a good idea especially if they can be sold with test results paperwork

 

[Smithy530963]

Well what a carry on...... (Brexit and the Lockdown affecting the docks) took me three tries to get the injectors here, all down to the "new" Brexit export procedures. the German company gave up twice and returned my money and core deposit without me asking them to, apologizing for the situation which was out of their control, suggesting I tried again later. I tried again "later" and finally I have a full reconditioned set of 6 injectors to go into my ML. The total cost, (so far), was 350euro for the injectors, 300euro deposit for the cores, (which I had 15 working days to return and are on their way back now via UPS), £22.31 for UPS couriered delivery, which was the company that delivered them, so all the delivery packaging could be used again, 1.9Kg total. As a reminder the company is "DieselFixNeuss" and I have to say they have been very good in the communication department, with the help of Google Translate, and I would have no problem recommending them. The final expense was the £81.25 Import Duty I had to pay, but as this is in effect a "returned repair/refurbishment" (once the cores have been returned) and therefore aren't a new "imported item" there's a good chance I will get the duty payment returned. I've already contacted the customs "ndrc.nch@hmrc.gov.uk" and the reply told me they will get to it, but there is a large backlog.... no surprise there. So hopefully I will have gotten 6 refurbished Bosch injectors for £305 which is quite good at less than £51 each.
Of course the fun started when it came to removing the old injectors. I had bought a removal kit from E-bay expecting the worst, and I wasn't disappointed. Three came out buy hand and I thought "this is going to be a doddle" I wonder what all the fuss is about.... the next three however were a real pain. The slide hammer tool managed to get the 4th one out after a while and the 5th also came out eventually, but with a much heavier slide hammer attached, the problem three were all the same side (Cyl. 4,5&6) where access seams to be a bit more limited, I realized later there is a section if paneling I could have unbolted had I not had an attack of "tunnel vision" focusing on the task rather than the "job". In the end I had to fabricate a puller to get the last one out (Cyl. 5). It was a real dog to do, but I was happy with the puller and I could have used it for all of the injectors and not bothered buying the slide hammer kit, total cost was less than £5. When the puller was attached and all set up I still had to use a breaker bar (30" long) and a lot of force to get the last one to break out, which it did with a loud "cracking noise", I actually thought I'd snapped it. After that it wound out quite easily with just a ratchet wrench on it. Cyl. 5 was the only one with any evidence of seal leakage, all the copper seals came out still on the injectors except for this one. I intend to clean up all the injector spaces and recut the seats with the kit I bought, also off E-bay, the day after tomorrow when I've got a bit of spare time. Just as a matter of interest, the expensive "Ceramic Grease" Merc recommend you apply before refitting can be bought from "Toolstation" quite cheap, I bought two tubes so that I can apply it liberally just in case I have this to do again.
On the plus side I believe I've also found the reason for me smelling, for very short periods, exhaust fumes inside the car every now and again, I had looked for the cause of this a few times without any success but I think it is from a leaking "O ring" on the large air induction pipe that connects to the EGR system at the joint just to NS of the Turbo. I could see evidence of carbon dust "steaming" away from this joint. On inspection the Green O ring was damaged, probably from me reassembling in a hurry after the Oil Cooler repair. I think this must be very common fail as Merc had the replacement O ring on the self.
Hope this info helps somebody in the future, not that I would wish it on anyone

 

[LostKiwi]

took me three tries to get the injectors here, all down to the "new" Brexit export procedures. the German company gave up twice and returned my money and core deposit without me asking them to, apologizing for the situation which was out of their control, suggesting I tried again later. I tried again "later" and finally I have a full reconditioned set of 6 injectors to go into my ML. The total cost, (so far), was 350euro for the injectors, 300euro deposit for the cores, (which I had 15 working days to return and are on their way back now via UPS), £22.31 for UPS couriered delivery, which was the company that delivered them, so all the delivery packaging could be used again, 1.9Kg total. As a reminder the company is "DieselFixNeuss" and I have to say they have been very good in the communication department, with the help of Google Translate, and I would have no problem recommending them. The final expense was the £81.25 Import Duty I had to pay, but as this is in effect a "returned repair/refurbishment" (once the cores have been returned) and therefore aren't a new "imported item" there's a good chance I will get the duty payment returned. I've already contacted the customs "ndrc.nch@hmrc.gov.uk" and the reply told me they will get to it, but there is a large backlog.... no surprise there.

Good innit?


For future reference you may find it easier to get things through if you keep the consignment value including delivery below £135 though some places may not be happy to do so.
In your case that would be 3 consignments of 2 injectors.