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Final leg of the on going judder issue.

Discussion in 'General Mercedes-Benz Related Discussion' started by Jimbo1959, Nov 10, 2019.

  1. Wighty

    Wighty Senior Member

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    Is the 440 quote for the front only ? That sounds high to me , I’ve got a set of Brembo discs and pads for the whole car sat in the garage for my E320cdi , I paid £180 ish from ECP a couple of months ago .
     
  2. bembo449

    bembo449 Senior Member

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    440 quid for that job is extortionate pricing imo , I could do them for less than 200 I reckon
     
  3. Wighty

    Wighty Senior Member

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    I reckon MB would do the fronts for well under £440 ?
     
  4. Jan van der Lubbe

    Jan van der Lubbe Senior Member

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    Yeah I agree - that’s why I’ve said no. Going to look at getting the discs skimmed somewhere local and see if that cures the problem.

    I don’t know but I feel like I can hear something rattling in the back. Also when I corner, or go over bumps - feel like the back ends shakes not like it should be. Or it’s just me going mad.
     
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  5. OP
    Jimbo1959

    Jimbo1959 Senior Member

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    Mine was meant to be going in to the garage to get the front wheel bearings done tomorrow but, (there's always a feckin' but), my mate is too busy to do them for me and envisages not getting them done for another fortnight at the earliest, even then there's no guarantee, so, weather permitting, I'm going to do them myself. I can't wait any longer, patience my ass! In fact, if I have to do the job sitting in a feckin' puddle I will, I'm sick of the delay and disappointment.

    Like you Jan, I have been down the garage route of checking everything and I have spent fortunes, on diagnostics and following the various suggestions to bring about a cure, fitting new parts, even though I work in the trade and can get parts cheaper, it's infuriating that after nearly two years I'm still no further forward.

    I am praying that replacing the bearings will be the answer, mainly because the more I think about it and the closer I look at the symptoms of the vibration, and after much discussion with you and the information you've been kind enough to provide, replacing the bearings would seem to be the answer to the issues which have arisen, and also because I so want the car to run as smoothly as it should. It breaks my heart that the pleasure has gone out of what was my pride and joy.

    I now have a full set of brake discs and two front calipers sitting spare in my garage which, if (sorry, I mean when) the vibration is cured, after fitting the new bearings, will become bluddy expensive paper weights. (I don't care, as long as the vibration is gone).
     
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  6. Jan van der Lubbe

    Jan van der Lubbe Senior Member

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    :)
    Hey Jimbo!

    Fingers crossed for you to get this sorted. If you need anymore documents then let me know!! :)

    Just for clarity - can you explain the judder you are feeling? Ie is it brake peddle, car or steering wheel?

    I’m still a little confused when you replaced the front ... it went away and then came back again. Then you replaced rear ... it went away and then came back again... :confused: This should imply that the vibration is coming from steering wheel and pedal

    Just FYI for future readers - the garage did rebalance my front wheels as they found them to be slightly out. It did feel a little better. I took the car for a proper 60mph to hard brake x 5 yesterday and the judder has dampened.

    The garage also put another Mercedes wheels on my car and the exact same judder is felt - so we can rule the wheels and tires out.

    Car is never going to feel as good as it could with run flats making the ride tram line!
     
  7. OP
    Jimbo1959

    Jimbo1959 Senior Member

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    I've had the same diagnostic carried out almost to the letter Jan, and after I had spent on new discs, pads, calipers, flexibrake hoses, an alloy wheel being straightened and rejigged four wheel rebalance and alignment then on to the back discs and pads, I decided to conduct my own research. I bought a winter set of alloys which suffered the same results of vibration, jeez I've had the car up in the air so many times I bought a trolley jack.

    That's when I met and started my discussions with you, all be it on line to be sure, however, what you proposed regarding the wheel bearing dove tailed with another diagnostic I'd had done. It seems to fit so, now you know how and why I have reached my conclusion and why I am going to do the bearings. Tbh there's not much left to be replaced on my car unless there's been a feck up when the multilink suspension has been checked out. However the alignment check should act as a sort of second check and confirmation that they're all ok otherwise it wouldn't align properly.

    As soon as I get the job done I will report back guys.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
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  8. Jan van der Lubbe

    Jan van der Lubbe Senior Member

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    Ahh that’s a b******* of a job in the cold. You doing all four bearings or just the fronts? Can you describe the judder - is it Pedal, car or wheel?
     
  9. OP
    Jimbo1959

    Jimbo1959 Senior Member

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    For clarity, the judder can be felt through brake peddle, car, (through the seat of my pants), and the steering wheel. The reason it goes away and comes back again, I THINK, is down to the suspension geometry being messed about with the car being up in the air and down more often than a whore's knickers.

    The bearings sit properly for a limited time, once the car is back on the ground, usually when I am driving Miss Daisy (Ok gently), with no harsh acceleration or braking it's fine. However, as soon as I open her up, particularly on B roads "making progress" as the flat caps say, the vibration comes back with a vengence. I have also noticed when I am turning very gently left on a continuous curve on our super smooth new by pass road that, there is an unsettled rough feeling through the steering wheel now, which has developed in the last thousand or so miles. This, imho, all points to and indicates that the wheel bearings are the problem.

    Last weekend like you, I had the garage rebalance my front wheels and they found them to be slightly out. It did feel a little better when done. I took the car for a proper 100 mph hard brake and the judder has dampened, in my case, slightly but it's still there.

    My final confirmation is that both front tyres are showing excessive wear on the outer shoulders, now I know that Mercs are prone for this if the alignment is not kept on top of, but, trust me, mine has been checked at least six times in the last two years with only one adjustment made, the very first one I might add. Since then, it's always been checks to try to rule out the vibration issues.

    The fitting of a winter alloy wheel set with different tyres made no difference with the same issues being experienced.
    So, the wheel bearings, it's got to be them.
     
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  10. OP
    Jimbo1959

    Jimbo1959 Senior Member

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    Just the fronts Jan.

    All being well about two hours, sixteen bolts and a little hammer and chisel work, pressing the shells back in straight will be the only awkward part, I hope. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Jan van der Lubbe

    Jan van der Lubbe Senior Member

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    Great summary and I’d agree with your conclusion. Onwards and hopefully upwards for the smoooooth Mercedes to return!
     
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  12. OP
    Jimbo1959

    Jimbo1959 Senior Member

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    The outskirts of Storm Dennis have arrived, looks like I'll be sitting in the "Feckin' puddle" after all.
    Having to work outside at this time of year is a pita, it's bad enough with the cold.

    IMG_4169.JPG
     
  13. bembo449

    bembo449 Senior Member

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    im the last person to shy away from crap working conditions but it doesn't appear to effect the car that much so why not put it off till it cheers up a bit pal ??
     
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  14. OP
    Jimbo1959

    Jimbo1959 Senior Member

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    The main reason being, I am mega p*ssed off with this feckin' issue, honest to God, I almost bought another car last week, if they had offered me a decent price instead of 6K for mine, it would have been gone, but I can't afford to drop 8K in two years no matter how fed up I am.

    I have spent most of today trying to do the front wheel bearings and it turned into the job from hell, if it could go wrong it did. Plus some of the things I discovered.... lets just say that one particular, alleged mechanic, will be getting a rocket up his arse on Monday. I'd post the pictures but to make matters worse my computer is now playing silly bu&&ers and won't interact with my phone. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

    Ffffuuuuuccccccckkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!

    To top it all I only managed to get one side done so, tomorrow is not going to be much fun either, nearly 4 bluddy hours to do one wheel bearing, ffs, it's only nine bolts and it SHOULD be off. The amount of play in the wheel bearing that I done was ridiculous and you would never believe from the condition of the hub and inner disc area, that the discs were only replaced last October. I just hope that I can get away without having to replace the hub axle.

    I am just so feckin' angry right now, also not helped by the hammer skitting and clobbering the back of my hand when I was trying to get one of the bearing shells/races out.

    OK rant over, I feel a little better now that I've got that off my chest. We'll see what tomorrow brings. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
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  15. bembo449

    bembo449 Senior Member

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    oh dear pal , not good but now im intrigued to know what went wrong :p . . . . .
     
  16. Mark A

    Mark A Senior Member

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    Fingers crossed that this fixes your problem bud.
     
  17. OP
    Jimbo1959

    Jimbo1959 Senior Member

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    IMG_4175.JPG IMG_4172.JPG
    IMG_4173.JPG


    I wish I could get my iPhone and computer to sync then I could upload some of the pictures, so, I'll just have to explain instead.

    I was all set to do the job outside based on the assumption that today would be similar to yesterday, as in, dry with occasional showers, all be it rather cold. When I woke up this morning it was absolutely hissing down, there was actually a small pond outside of my garage around 10ft square. This started the do a job, to do a job, scenario that was to become the theme for my day.

    I couldn't work in my driveway, with little to no cover I don't want to catch pneumonia, so, I got my brush out and swept the water away from the blocked drain and down the side of my garage.

    When I opened the garage, I discover that no. 2 son has turned it into a gym. I tidied up and made some room which enabled me to get the front of the car in, well at least to about half way along the door. This gave me around 3ft of working space which was out of the rain, but hey, beggars can't be choosers.

    This is where the pictures would have given you a better idea of the conditions I was dealing with.
    I had barely enough room to kneel down facing the car wheel with my feet touching the garage wall. Anyhoo, I then had to crawl under the front of the car to get my trolley jack placed under the suspension arm pivot bush which would let me check the bearing travel/adjustment.

    Bluddy hell is the only thing that comes to mind, I reckon that there was approx, 5-6mm of movement when the wheel was wiggled at the outer edge. Due to the confined space I had to face the trolley jack out the front of the car, there just wasn't the space at the side for it to fit.

    This meant that until I had the car almost off the ground it was moving up less that one half inch at each stroke of the jack lever and the strokes were lucky if they were four inches each, this was accompanied by me being in a very awkward position of lying on my stomach and half twisted towards the jack lever trying to jack it up by these miniscule amounts at each stroke.

    I then had the issue of getting in the way of myself when using my samson bar to release the caliper mounting, I just didn't have the room to do it easily. I finally managed that with a little luck and a universal joint. From the outside the discs actually looked in good condition but the inner was a mess. The mechanic who had fitted them in October had not coated with any grease of any discription, consequently there was a LOT of rust in there. I had to clean the hub rotor and the discs, before removing the bearing race shells. It was while attempting this that I had a moment with the hammer and skelped the back of my hand when it skite-ed, ouch!! mucho swearing and general abuse ensued.

    It was then that I noticed that the pond had re-made itself and was trying its best to climb into the garage. Brush collected and water removed I was again about to start work again when I accidentally stood on the wire for my travelling light which caused to to dislodge and blow the bulb, when I went into the house to get another, I found that typically, that had been my last bulb. More swearing, a lot of swearing! :mad::mad:

    Swmbo had reappeared home by this time and condesended to go back out and get me a new pack of bulbs,which let me continue with the prep work prior to refitting.

    It then transpired that if I could drop it, loose it, miss-place it, whatever, I could and did, if it could go wrong in any way it did. I have not been so wound up in a long time, I brushed past the wheel I had taken off and it fell over and hit the wing :mad::mad::mad: Jeez I thought I was going to have a heart attack :mad::mad::mad: Fortunately I got away with it :rolleyes:

    Ok, so enough of boring you to death with my little problems, I eventually managed to get it rebuilt, I ache all over and couldn't feel my feet when I got in, my manicure was a joke even after washing my hands in bleach they are still filthy. :D

    Swmbo is decidedly unhappy with me, due I think, to the fact that I have turned into Victor Meldrew.

    My son came home and has now fixed my phone/computer interface so pics to follow.
    Pond, inner disc and hub rotor.
     
  18. Blobcat

    Blobcat Moderator

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    A day very much sent to try your patience...

    You can upload direct from your phone (just have to access the forum from your phone and press the upload file button)
     
  19. OP
    Jimbo1959

    Jimbo1959 Senior Member

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    Thanks Russ, any time I try to get to the forum Tapatalk takes over, it’s weird.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. daibevan

    daibevan Senior Member

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