1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

OM605 timing help!!!

Discussion in 'Engine, Drivetrain, Fuel and Exhaust' started by forgeman, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. forgeman

    forgeman Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Sunny ol' Suffolk
    Your Mercedes:
    C250 td
    Hi there,

    here is the story so far;
    i had to remove the head from my c250td due to 2 snapped glow plugs and a few other bits and bobs that needed looking at, after getting the head back on and timed up ie. locking pin on the inlet cam and all set to tdc went to fire her up and she refused to start i then rechecked the timing and she had skipped a few teeth on the chain, the timing was now 90 degrees out in relation to the cam and bottom end; so re timed her back up and now she seems to be blowing fuel out of the inlet when turning her over, so firstly how do i check the fuel pump timing?
    and secondly she is throwing oil out of the chain tensioner?

    i have two trains of thought one being that when the chain slipped it has bent a few valves? secondly that the fuel pump is now out of time with the rest of the engine. i dont have to locking tool for my fuel pump but is there any easy ways of timing her up?

    any help would be great
    Colin
     
  2. television

    television Always remembered RIP

    Messages:
    164,074
    Likes Received:
    310
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry
    Your Mercedes:
    2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
    I take it you removed the chain tensioner to do this,,, I only have the 605 tensioner details printed off but I can print the timing info off later in the day, I can send the one that I do have
     
  3. OP
    forgeman

    forgeman Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Sunny ol' Suffolk
    Your Mercedes:
    C250 td
    yep removed the tensionor any thing would be great
     
  4. television

    television Always remembered RIP

    Messages:
    164,074
    Likes Received:
    310
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry
    Your Mercedes:
    2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
    Pop your Email address up and I will send the one I have and I will seek to print off more later in the day.

    You can remove the address in edit
     
  5. Alex Crow

    Alex Crow Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,677
    Likes Received:
    34
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Location:
    Super Suffolk
    Your Mercedes:
    W169, W124, w202, W203, KTM 250 EXC, VW T25 camper and a Polo in a pear tree
    Certainly seems you have bent valves, I would check those before wasting any other effort.
     
  6. television

    television Always remembered RIP

    Messages:
    164,074
    Likes Received:
    310
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry
    Your Mercedes:
    2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
    OK and sent,,I think that Alex has some very good points on this and that would account for the blowing back.

    You can edit out your address
     
  7. spock500

    spock500 Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Your Mercedes:
    300TD, 1998
    It's unlikely the pump has lost timing with the crank as the chain is well wrapped around the sprocket. It could as you say have jumped in relation to the cam shafts.

    Ensure number one is on the compression stroke whilst observing the fuel rise after removing the injector line. This can be seen in the small cup which seat the male part of the line itself.

    If you have taken the head off then that would involve removing the cams themselves. When reassembling you need to compress the hydraulic lifters as they expand when not under pressure.

    I can thoroughly recommend doing this on the kitchen table using a juice press [​IMG]
     
  8. OP
    forgeman

    forgeman Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Sunny ol' Suffolk
    Your Mercedes:
    C250 td
    Finally managed to get some time to have a look at the car today got the head off again no problems... Turned the head over expecting the worst and everything looked surprisingly normal; did a leak down test and one of the inlets on no.3 weeped a little so have reground and lapped all of the valves as I was there. I then turned my attention to the lifters and went about squeezing the oil out of them: some needed quite a lot of force to bleed them fully.

    Tomorrow I will be slotting everything back together apart from following the the timing sequence of the dots on the cams and locking pin and the crank to tdc on no.1 is it possible to accidentally set the timing 180 degrees out?

    Many thanks for the previous replies
    Colin
     
  9. Alex Crow

    Alex Crow Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,677
    Likes Received:
    34
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Location:
    Super Suffolk
    Your Mercedes:
    W169, W124, w202, W203, KTM 250 EXC, VW T25 camper and a Polo in a pear tree
    The only answer to this is yes, many mistakes are possible!

    However, you cannot get the cam timing 180 degrees out, but you can get the crank timing 180 out (but you do have the OT marker, so dont...)
    The other possible mistake is getting the pump timing out - so make sure that no.1 is on the compression stroke!! (which it will be if correctly using cam timing marks)
     
  10. spock500

    spock500 Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Your Mercedes:
    300TD, 1998
    Yup, as above, it's the pump which can be the tricky one.

    You can either follow the 'spill' method described above or undo the timing inspection port on the side of the pump. Oil may leak out so have a rag handy together with a torch and mirror.

    Slowly rotate until the peg comes into view. This should be set in the region of 15 degrees BTDC or thereabouts depending on model/year.

    If you time it up at TDC it's likely to be a tooth or more out and will clip the valves if started.
     
  11. spock500

    spock500 Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Your Mercedes:
    300TD, 1998
    Before re-assemble I would measure the bolts do stretch over time. Tolerance from memory is around 2-3 mm, any longer and they may not be able to give when hot.

    Give me a shout if you have problems finding the timing notch as I have a few pics somewhere.
     
  12. OP
    forgeman

    forgeman Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Sunny ol' Suffolk
    Your Mercedes:
    C250 td
    Sorry a little confused... Should I have the crank at tdc after the compression stroke or should it be timed to 15 btdc I'm talking in relation to the cams
     
  13. OP
    forgeman

    forgeman Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Sunny ol' Suffolk
    Your Mercedes:
    C250 td
    Or is that to ensure the pump us right I should see the notch at 15 btdc?
    Cheers
    Colin
     
  14. spock500

    spock500 Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Your Mercedes:
    300TD, 1998
    Crank should be at 15 degrees BTDC with the notch in the port together with the two dimples on the cams aligned.

    Don't worry if it's not exactly 15 degrees as yours maybe slightly less being a turbo. Either way this will time all three parts up correctly as if more than a tooth out will show as perhaps 5 - 7 degrees on the crank pulley if that makes sense?

    Once aligned turnover by hand very slowly to check for any contact. Those hydraulic lifters can overextend themselves when drained of oil locking fully open, worth doing a quick check just in case.

    This is what you are looking for in the port.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  15. OP
    forgeman

    forgeman Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Sunny ol' Suffolk
    Your Mercedes:
    C250 td
    It would appear that my timing has slipped on the pump is there any way of changing this without taking the front of the car off ?
     
  16. television

    television Always remembered RIP

    Messages:
    164,074
    Likes Received:
    310
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry
    Your Mercedes:
    2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
    Would you like the worksheet for setting up the pump
     
  17. OP
    forgeman

    forgeman Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Sunny ol' Suffolk
    Your Mercedes:
    C250 td
  18. television

    television Always remembered RIP

    Messages:
    164,074
    Likes Received:
    310
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry
    Your Mercedes:
    2002 SL500, 216 CL500, all fully loaded
    OK and sent you can edit out your address :D
     
  19. spock500

    spock500 Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Your Mercedes:
    300TD, 1998

    How much out is it? don't forget your settings maybe different to mine by 3 - degrees.

    You can move the chain around the sprocket by removing the bottom dowel from the chain guide.
     
  20. Alex Crow

    Alex Crow Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,677
    Likes Received:
    34
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Location:
    Super Suffolk
    Your Mercedes:
    W169, W124, w202, W203, KTM 250 EXC, VW T25 camper and a Polo in a pear tree
    Can I just check - you do know that if you rotate the crank fully through one rotation, the pump and cams will only have moved half of one turn?

    Note that cam timing is set at TDC (O/T mark on crank pulley), not at 15 degrees. Note the two holes that line up with a 4 or 5 mm pin in each cam gear, and the front cam caps, as well as the 2x dots that meet in the middle.

    Pump timing is approx 14 degrees ATDC - note ATDC, not BTDC.
     

Share This Page