SandyDD

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I have very recently purchased a A160 automatic (58) and have been told by a mechanic that there is a problem with the gearbox. I took it back to the garage under the 1 month warranty but they say they can't find anything wrong?! I am used to driving a bigger (V6 3.7L) automatic, so expected this new purchase to feel like it had less umph... and there's certainly less power when I go to pull away from a standing start. I am NO engine/car buff, so am not sure what to do next? If there was a problem with the gearbox (mechanic says it's not changing up properly, although I just think it's smooth and not that noticeable??) wouldn't it have high revs at say 60mph? Sometimes it also feels like the timing is off/engine judders a little. It's had the engine pressure tested and a service was done last November. The only other thing I've read that it could be is bad diesel or that the filter needs changing... spark plugs??? Help/advice please! Thank you.
 

John Laidlaw

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Welcome.
So you’re saying you’re not finding anything wrong, but a mechanic says there is, and a garage is saying nothing is wrong - that right?
The auto in this will be very very different from that in a 3.7L V6 (is that a Mercedes too?), I think I’m right in saying it is a CVT box, so you won’t notice the changes in such a pronounced way
 
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SandyDD

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Welcome.
So you’re saying you’re not finding anything wrong, but a mechanic says there is, and a garage is saying nothing is wrong - that right?
The auto in this will be very very different from that in a 3.7L V6 (is that a Mercedes too?), I think I’m right in saying it is a CVT box, so you won’t notice the changes in such a pronounced way
..............................
Hi John

Thank you for responding! Correct, the mechanic is saying it's a gearbox problem but the garage is saying their guys can't find anything wrong. The print out I got from the mechanic says (direct quote):

Problem: automatic transmission (AT) not engaging in any selected gears. Trouble codes(s) stored in transmission control module (TCM) fault memory: P0841, P2732.

Cause: Tranmission control module (TCM) faulty.

Remedy: carry out electrical, mechanical and component tests (as applicable) to eliminate any other possible cause(s). If no fault(s) found: renew transmission control module (TCM).

Note: replacement TCM will require programming - refer to manufacturer.

As I said, I'm just a chick with a car problem! lol! However, I do feel the car is sluggish (my other vehicle is a Jeep Cherokee BTW) generally and doesn't pull away (say at a roundabout) very well/slow response and does occasionally feel a bit juddery sometimes... could be it's cold! Does any of this make sense? Thanks
 

John Laidlaw

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Well it does appear quite clear from what the mechanic has said (and with diagnostics)that there is a TCM/ECU issue which would certainly explain the juddery and inconsistent feel.
Few questions :-
1) Who was the mechanic - obviously unrelated to the garage you bought the car from?
2) What diagnostic tool did he use?
3) how many weeks/days have you left of your 1 month warranty?
4) has the garage you bought it from run a diagnostic?
 
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SandyDD

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Well it does appear quite clear from what the mechanic has said (and with diagnostics)that there is a TCM/ECU issue which would certainly explain the juddery and inconsistent feel.
Few questions :-
1) Who was the mechanic - obviously unrelated to the garage you bought the car from?
2) What diagnostic tool did he use?
3) how many weeks/days have you left of your 1 month warranty?
4) has the garage you bought it from run a diagnostic?
...................................................

Hi John... let me try and answer as per your question numbering:

1) The mechanic is a family friend and works at a local auto centre and is unrelated to the garage where the car was purchased.

2) From what is on the printout, it's Autodata Limited... does that make sense/sound right?

3) The one month warranty has just passed but this issue was raised after one week of me receiving the car... so, it's ongoing and unresolved.

4) They have and I will pick that up tomorrow when I go to collect my car. They (the garage) has had the vehicle back twice (hence it being over the month) to look into the issue and both times they've said there is no problem and both times, my mechanic has said there is a problem... hence me being stuck in the middle :( Will report back (if you don't mind) on what the garages diagnostic says tomorrow...
 

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Thanks! In my opinion, the fact that you’ve reported the issue within the 1 month warranty period is as you say - ‘unresolved’ .
Autodata are a known diagnostic kit used by workshops, don’t know too much about that kit personally as MB use ‘Star’ Xentry system which is MB Specific. Suspect Autodata is fine though.
Interesting to hear what the garage says
 
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Thanks John... will update you tomorrow... fingers crossed!
 

LostKiwi

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I'm assuming you bought the car from a dealer (hence the 1 month warranty)?
If so the dealer must legally give you warranty under the Consumer Act - 6 months. I've posted the relevant part of the act here - refer to paragraph 14.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/19/enacted

Looking at the information you have been given suggests the mechanic used a STAR to look at the codes - if the selling dealer doesn't have a similar machine they will be unable to read the codes correctly and won't see any fault.

If you can, find out what the dealer and mechanic used to read faults.


The first code you have relates to low oil pressure inside the gearbox.
P0841 - While driving, the actual hydraulic pressure is implausible in comparison with the specified hydraulic pressure in the CVT
The second code is P2732 - Impermissible opening of hydraulic clutch “forward gear” has occurred in the CVT

Both of these can be indicative of valve body issues which are sadly not all that uncommon on the CVT transmissions.
I'm not sure how the mechanic got an issue with the TCM from those codes as the TCM (unlike the valve body) is in general pretty robust and neither error points to a TCM issue specifically.

You don't say where you are in the country? We have some very good and trusted independent MB specialists who frequent here and they may be able to help definitively state if there is or is not a problem.
 
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Hi LostKiwi

Thank you for taking the time to go through things.

As I previously mentioned, I sadly have no idea about the mechanics of things but I can see that my independent mechanic used Autodata for the error codes.

The valve body issue that you mention... is it a costly fix? I am rather concerned that the garage/showroom "gave" me one month and this is now gone. Also, the issue they've been looking for has been gearbox related (supposedly) and if I go back with something else like the valve body, they may just turn around and say that I'm out of the warranty time that they gave?

I really dislike feeling useless in these situations :( BTW, I am in Sandy (Bedfordshire)... are there any MB specialists locally do you know? Thank you...
 

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Hi Sandy,

Heres some 'light' reading about your gearbox.
http://www.actronics.eu/en/mercedes-benz-temic-vgs/

The valve body is a part of the gearbox. Basically the electronics (TCM) controls an hydraulic module through a series of valves and solenoids (valve body) which then actuate a set of clutches and an expanding drive pulley pair connected by a special belt.

As you're in Beds there are a couple of independents near to you. Welwyn Merx has an excellent reputation and is the preferred indy of Craig on here. They sorted some very obscure issues on his car.

If its just a Star reading I'm near Northampton so could do that as well (I need to pop over to Craig's so could kill two birds with one stone - he's near Rushden.

Don't fret too much about the warranty - you have the protection of the Consumer Rights Act for 6 months although you may need to battle with them to get them to accept liability.

How many miles has the car covered?
 
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Hi LostKiwi

Thank for the light reading link... afraid I glazed over pretty quickly though! o_O

Thanks for the offer of the Star reader... will wait and see what printout they give me back with the car today and go from there... may take you up on the offer though.
 

Craiglxviii

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I saw my name mentioned... hello and welcome.

If it's the A160 then that is a Renault K9K engine and Nissan CVT. As such there are no gears (continuously variable transmission), there are two big conical gears with a belt between them (very simply put) and that belt is moved up or down to ... er... continuously vary- hence the name!- the gear ratio to always perfectly match the engine speed to the driven wheel speed on the road. Now that CVT is a weird thing, this talk of TCMs etc is hearsay. What actually happens is more along the lines of a ship.

Driver (Captain): <accelerator pressed> Engine room, all ahead full!
TCM (engine room): all ahead full aye! <makes sounds to give the impression of power>
Driver (Captain): ah, noise generated, we must be moving.
TCM (engine room): full steam pressure reached! <power applied>


It's all done using very small people. Think like the Doozers in Fraggle Rock.

Anyway, all that said and done, I very strongly suggest you to not use Millenium Mercedes in Bedford, I would not trust them. Welwyn Merx is where my CL is sat in right now and is utterly trustworthy, although he has about ten days' backlog right now I believe. Well worth giving him a call, ask for Phil.

On the other side of things, if you're used to a 3.7 V6 then no kind of very lightly turbocharged 1.5 4-pot engine is going to cause thrills.......
 
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SandyDD

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Thanks Craigxviii

Yes, realise my V6 pumps out much more than this little A160... but it's cute anyway! lol!

Thanks for the info re the CVT... will be interesting to see what the report says when I pick up the car a bit later... will post so that all you kind chaps will know what's been said.

It's a real pity that there's nobody more local to me... Welwyn is a bit of a mission.
 

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Yes, it's a ballache but there is just no-one closer.
 

LostKiwi

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It's a real pity that there's nobody more local to me... Welwyn is a bit of a mission.
If its necessary it will be worth it. Its even more of a mission for Craig and some members drive 100s of miles for a good indy.
 

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Yup. On the plus side if you ask Phil nicely he will lend you his A160 courtesy car so you can compare! :)
 
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SandyDD

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At last... I get the car back from the guys I purchased it from and their diagnostic is completely free of any problems... zero!?

So, I decided to take it to another mechanic that works with the local Mercedes dealer and he puts it on his diagnostic machine and the attached is what I get back! Looks really scary to me!

The question is, are any of these things something I should go back with to the guys I purchased the car from? Report attached... hope it's clear enough! Comments/feedback very welcome! :)
 

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  • MB diagnostic report 22.2.18.pdf
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LostKiwi

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Nothing there looks overly concerning. Most of those are related to SAM communication errors which (as long as everything works) appear to be historic. Did the garage clear the errors so it now has a clean slate to start from?

The only slightly concerning errors are with the upstream (closest to engine) Engine Lambda sensor which has logged an error. As its a stored error (as opposed to current) there is nothing to worry about yet. If it was cleared and comes back its a latent problem that will eventually require a new Lambda sensor (about £230 from MB).
 
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Hi LostKiwi

Thank you! Yes, the mechanic has cleared all the errors and I will go back in the next week or so for him to run the diagnostic again so that we can see if anything shows up again. I presume the Lambda sensor is nothing that I can go back to the garage where I purchased the vehicle from with as it's not immediately necessary?

I really appreciate the input you, John and Craig have given me and fingers crossed, nothing else "pops" up... if it does, I'll be back! lol! :rolleyes:
 


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