Granit

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Hi there,

My first post and I really hope someone can help me on this problem.

Right, Yesterday which was Sunday, I thought I would take off the Turbo intake pipe and clean it.

So I started by opening up the air filter box taking the air filter out, note that the air filer had sort of deformed out of shape around the middle, it was where the hose is that leads to the MAF. I cleaned all this up cleaned the metal netting just before the MAF.

I proceeded to take out the turbo intake hose and clean it, there was a hose attached to the intake hose it is a line from the engine I think.

So I cleaned everything and put everything back, and closed the bonnet and drove home perfectly fine.

The next morning which is today, got in the car, the car started perfectly fine and I drove to work. Now the problem started when I was in a 40MPH zone all of a sudden the car lost power(not pulling normally) I could see smoke in my mirror, The car was not responding to the gas pedal, the more I pressed the pedal the more black smoke was being produced and the car was not pulling.

I stopped and I was trying to figure out what had happened I knew it was something to do with what I had done the day before which I just regretted. I just thought to take a look at the air filter which I was so stupid to place back the previous day. The air filter had sort of risen in the deformed place and looked like it was going in the hose where the MAF is connected.

So what I did is take out the air filter and closed the air filter box back with no air filter, I started the car and it seemed to be okay however it did not seem it's normal self. So I drove to work and left it there I never though anymore of it.

So now it comes time to move my car I start it up and at this moment the car in on park, I gave the car a few revs to see if it is fine and it does not respond well to the revs, and then all of a sudden the car seems like it choking so the engine is choking and stalls.

Now I have no idea to what this could be, when I rev a lot of smoke is coming from the back of the turbo where it is connected to the cat. A lot of smoke comes from the exhaust pipe and the car seems like it is choking

My suspicious is that maybe some material from the air filter went through the net and hit the turbo blades and damaged the turbo. or maybe the MAF is not working. could this be a MAF problem which I hope it is, or could this be a Turbo problem which to be honest I think it is. other than these to things I cannot see any other things being wrong.

I can upload pictutes of the turbo blades if needed so someone can tell me if they need replacing. the turbo blades have mm movement and the blades spin fine when I spin it with the fingers.

Please someone help, I will not drive the car as I do not want to damage it anymore.

I hope I made sense.

Thank you

Granit
 

Taffy7hfa

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Hi Granit, sorry to say it sounds as thought the turbo may have "inhaled" something it didn't like, probably when it was run minus the air filter, there is often a fair bit of debris on the dirty side of the air box.
The turbo can easily spin up to 200,000 rpm as you can imagine it doesn't take much dirt to do a lot of damage.
 
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Granit

Granit

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Hi Taffy7hfa,

Thank you very much for the reply, I appreciate it. I totally agree with you I definitely think the turbo has inhaled something that has damaged it. However the previous day, on the dirty side of the air filter box I made sure it was clean so there were no debris, however debris could have gotten into the turbo during the 20 min drive to work without the air filter.

I do not think it is the MAF, however while I was thinking about this,

I was trying to understand why black smoke was coming from between the CAT and the turbo, could something be stuck there.

What if the exhaust pipe is blocked in some way.

I will take the exhaust pipe off tomorrow and give it a good clean and see what happens.

I’m not too sure how hard it is to separate the cat from the turbo. Would you know how this is done.

I will upload a picture of the turbo blades tomorrow I’m not sure if I can upload videos on here

Thank you

Kind Regards

Granit
 

Taffy7hfa

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The exhaust clamps on the back of the turbo are prone to fail, it was probably leaking before, it's just more noticeable now because of the amount of smoke being produced. A live data check on Star will soon tell you if the turbo's munched.
 
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Granit

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Hi Unce Benz,

You might be right and I really do hope you are right.

I will pull it out tomorrow and update you both with pictures and findings.

I have asked a mechanic to read the car with the computer, he said he will do it end of the week

1. I really do not want to drive the car to another mechinc to cause further trouble.

2. The mechanic is literally next door within touching distance.

I really want to find out what is wrong with it, as I said I will pull out the cat which is no harm in doing so anyway and see if I’m fact it is blocked, I will also pull out the exhaust pipe leading up to the cat to make sure it is not blocked and give it a good clean.

Thank you for the help.

I appreciate it.
 
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Granit

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Hi there,

I have taken out the catalytic converter connecting to the turbo, it was not blocked however I have it a good ten minute was with the pressure washer until only clear water came out then used some strong cleaner on it and let it set in for about 5 minutes and pressure washed it again until clear water was the only thing coming out of the cat. The cat is drying at the moment before I put it on.

However what I realised was that the seal wring which slides on the turbo was damaged at the bottom so that is where the black smoke was coming from around the turbo area,

1. would you say this is the root of the problem I am facing or not.

I have taken a picture of the back of the turbo which seems ordinary, movement is find, however the blades inside the turbo do have very little play in it probably 1mm up and down play and no side to side play, I guess this is nothing to worry about.

I have also taken a picture of the damaged seal wring,

I have taken a picture of the turbo, now I am no turbo expert or anything but from what I can see is that the blades are not in very good shave they seem like they must of hit something. Is this turbo done for or is it okay.

I have also taken a picture of the new seal ring on the turbo. I have also put a new seal ring where the exhaust down pipe meets the cat.

On the last picture I have had to replace the hose for the out line on this air regulator I think it is.

Once the cat drys I will give it 24 hours I will put it back on and see if there is any improvement.

If not I will just send it to the mechanic as I have no idea what the problem could be at this point.

Thank you

Granit Back of Turbo.JPG Turbo Front Blades.JPG Seal ring on turbo.JPG New seal ring.JPG Out hose replaced.JPG
 

oigle

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The exhaust side of your turbo looks fine. The inlet has certainly had some rubbish go through which has damaged the leading edges of the vanes. This in itself is no great issue - I have seen plenty with similar damage. So long as the bearings are fine (and they seem to be) and it spins up with no loud banshee wail, you should be OK. For it to be smoking as you said, presuming you mean black smoke, then it isn't a turbo issue. Unlikely to be MAF either. I would be looking at EGR and inlet manifold and flap operation as a probable cause. A new turbo rear seal should fix the smoke leak around the turbo.

Ian.
 
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Granit

Granit

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Hi Ian,

Thank you for the information I appreciate it.

With the turbo it moves perfectly fine I was just worried that the main cause of the whole issue was the turbo leading vanes on the front side.

Now I have come to a conclusion that the turbo is not the problem from your information. The CAT is not the problem, the MAF cannot be the problem, I have checked all hoses for any splits and have no found any.

The intake manifold has been leaking oil or rather carbon deposits under it for quite some time, however it has never caused this issue.

Maybe the flaps have decided not to work, the EGR valve seems fine however I’m not mechanic to know if it is or not.

The two pictures here are taken under the inlet manifold.

This needs to be change even if not the problem however a mechinc would charge at least 6 hours labour plus the part if it is split or cracked. And I am pretty sure a mechanic will not do a flap delete on the manifold.

I am wondering if I could take this task on myself, I have read threads and it seems to be rather long than complicated.

Thank you

Kind Regards

Granit

8E981885-AAED-4A78-858E-9D6716542FEC.jpeg 0EF677A6-7D0C-4DA7-86AE-45C08CF6F67A.jpeg
 

oigle

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Yes, a long and arduous job as well as a filthy one if you try to clean out the inlet manifold. You would need considerable expertise and lots of patience as it is a fiddly job that requires care. However, many members on here have done it and no doubt some searches on here would give you some information. I personally paid a mechanic. The filth inside the manifold has to be seen to be believed. I deleted the egr operation after cleaning the whole thing out so it wouldn't happen again.
I would seriously get the egr operation and flap operation checked out professionally. Sometimes flaps even break off and jam up the inlet ports. Nasty things...

Ian.
 
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Granit

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Hi Ian,

I have done some searches on this forum regarding the inlet manifold.

I do not have enough experience to start talking everything out. I would probably get it done by a mechanic like you did as if I start I know for sure I will get stuck and need a mechanic anyway.

I have read many many threads on how dirty the manifold is, placing the manifold in chemicals for 24 hours and cleaning multiple times with oven cleaner and many other chemicals. I think I would enjoy this part of the job seeing the manifold going through the cleaning process and seeing the gunk coming out knowing the engine will thank me for letting it breath better.

Right now I am in the process of putting everything back and I will see if the problem is fixed.

Thank you

Kind Regards

Granit
 
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Granit

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Taffy7hfa, Uncle Benz, Oigle

I have GOOD news, I have put the CAT on after drying with a industrial dryer looks like a hair dryer, but if you were to try and dry your hair would would do more than dry your hair if that makes sense.

The CAT was well cleaned and well dried. So put the CAT on it was a bit fiddly with those clips very hard to put back on, well at least for me. Please take into account I changed both seal rings the one that goes on the down pipe and the one that goes on the turbo.

I put all the components back, air filter box, air filter, air filter cover, there is a hard plastic hose which connects to the air filter box and connects to some sort of air way to allow air to come into the box. The turbo pipes which connect to the turbo and the air filter cover.

Started the car gave it a few revs, and I am delighted to say that the car is back to fully working order, however this does not mean I will forget about the inlet manifold, as I know the engine is really not liking it and as Oigle said those nasty flaps can break and cause major damage which I really do not want.

I would like to make a sort of what to do in this scenario guide as I have not seen one for this problem.

1. Turn on the engine if it seems like the engine is choking and you go to the engine compartment if you see that black smoke is coming from the turbo area then this might in fact be the same problem I faced.

2. take the engine cover off there are 6 screws in total to take the engine cover off. Once the engine cover is off make sure you are looking in the right place, if you are in the UK the turbo will be on the driver side of the engine, if you are In Europe or America or any other country in fact the turbo will be on the passenger side of the engine.

3. to actually locate the turbo is easy, firstly look for the air filter box once you locate this the turbo is basically under the air filter box as is the catalytic converter.

4.Now we come to the point to start removing the components,

4.1 on the actual air filter box there is a hard plastic hose which is just under the MAF (mass air flow sensor) if you do a google search of air filter box hose you will see the hose I am talking about, it will have a clip on it which you just have to pull up with your finger and it will become loose, take care and patience to pull this out as sometimes it is a bit fiddly to come out. Once you take this out there is a rubber part of this hose which can be taken out from both sides. Take this out and leave on the side.

4.2 loosen the jubilee clips on the hard plastic hose which attaches to the top of the air filter box to locate this you should see the MAF (mass air flow sensor) then loosen the jubilee clip where the hose is attached to the turbo. there is a little hose which connects to the turbo hose which also connects to the engine, unplug this while taking care, also unplug the attached electrical item which is attached to the turbo hose.

4.3 take the hose out, inspect for any cracks or splits, check the orange rubber seal is not ripped or in bad shape.

4.4 Unscrew the three bolts of the air filter box, the top half of the box can be disconnected by simply opening the top half once you unscrew the three bolts and pulling the cover off with care. Once this is off take the air filter out.

4.5 once you take the air filter out you will see another two bolts holding the bottom half of the air filter box in place, unscrew these bolts, you will notice that you cannot pull it out once you unscrew the bolts this is because there are two rubber pieces that attached to the engine just uncle these using your fingers and take the box off and leave to one place

4.6 Lift the car up on the turbo side, you will need to take the wheel off, there are six plastic bolts holding the wheel arch liner, unscrew these and take care taking the plastic cover off.

4.7 once off inspect for any black remaining deposits from the damaged seal ring or fire ring that attached to the turbo, at this point you will have to take out the CAT, to do this you will have to take out the plastic cover underneath the car as you need to expose the down pipe in order to loosen to bolts to take out the CAT.

4.8 take out the clip holding the CAT to the turbo, just slide a long sturdy metal piece and pull and it should come off, please take care as these could break.

4.9 get under the car PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU HAVE PUT A JACK STAND AND NOT JUST USING THE JACK. Also use common sense when under the car. take the metal clip holding the down pipe to the CAT, again take care when doing, I wrote T for turbo on one of the clips so I remembered which one is which you should also do it as they are not the same size.

4.10 once you do this if you follow the down pipe down about 50 to 70 cementers down you will see two bolts, just loosen these to not take then off as I did not as it looks like it would be really fiddly to put the bolts back on.

4.11 once those bolts are loose the down pipe has room to move.

4.12 Now you will need to loosen two bolts which hold the CAT to the engine block. these are under the CAT, the CAT has a plate welded to it and the bolts are holding the plate to the engine block.

4.13 take care to take the CAT out, the est way to take it out is from above.

4.14 remove both seals on the turbo and the down pipe, replace with new seals they are in fact called seal ring gasket.

4.15 was the CAT very well with jet wash making sure after a while only clear water is coming out. make sure you dry for at least 24 hours with some kind of heater.

4.16 at this time I would check the blades at the back of the turbo and on the front of the turbo for any movement or damage.

4.17 now just do the reverse from here to put everything back.

Turn the car on, on the first try the engine might cut out, try again and give the car some good revs. take the car for the motorway sprint, this will first of all if you even get the car on the motorway if your problem is fixed secondly with a fresh clean cat it, it will dry out the CAT completely if it happens to be wet.

I hope I have actually made sense in my guide.

Thank you

Kind Regards

Granit
 

Taffy7hfa

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Good job ! well done....thanks for the update. they are so easy to work on compared to most other mercs aren't they. ;)
 
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Granit

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Hi Taffy7hfa,

Thank you I appreciate it.

To be honest I have no idea but yes you are right the ML is actually quite easy to work on.

Everything is very clear where it is and you can sort of plan how to get to whatever you want to on the engine by just looking at it if that makes sense.

I really would like to try to undertake the inlet Manifold myself however as Oigle said to work on the manifold you would need some expertise which I have none, I’m no mechanic I just find it a hobby to work on mechanical stuff and I have just started to work on the engine very recently and the job which I just completed was actually my biggest.

I don’t know why I say the engine, that sounds too complex for me, I have only changed the fuel lines, a injector, a intercooler pipe, serviced it, changed the brakes, taken the EGR valve off and cleaned it. I have done quite a lot of cosmetic things to the car. Please let me know if you would like to see pictures of the car and I will post them.

I will undertake the manifold when my uncle comes from abroad, he is a merc specialist and I can’t wait to update you three on the work. One thing that I read in a thread is that one guy he cleaned his inlet manifold with some kind of chemical bath for 24 hours. Then he proceeded to take the inlet manifold to the dishwasher and placing two of those dish washer bags inside the manifold, his wife must of went crazy.

Thank you for all your help Taffy7hfa, Uncle Benz and Oigle I appreciate it.

Kind Regards

Granit
 

Taffy7hfa

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Pictures are always good,;) you can get brand new replacement manifolds for around £225 http://r.ebay.com/ZLtGri its a biggish job due to all the pipework etc that goes through/around the manifold, quite do-able though.
this is mine.... IMG_0687.JPG
 
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Granit

Granit

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Hi Taffy7hfa

Thank you for the link I will for sure check it out.

Your ML looks very clean it looks like you have just polished it. I like it very much.

This is mine I hope I didn’t go too far with it. The rims are black at the moment I had them powder coated, I have also painted the brake calipers red.

I also have a light bar installed at the bottom of my bumper with a switch on the dashboard.

As I have driven in European countries like Croatia sometimes I need it. Actually I don’t need it but it’s good to have.

One thing I would like to mention is that on the fog lights, there is this light protector thing to stop too like light getting passed, I have taken this out and it makes a massive difference when using fog lights.

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Taffy7hfa

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Very nice ! :cool::cool:
 
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Granit

Granit

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Hi Taffy7hfa,

Thank you I was hoping you wouldn’t say I went a bit to far with the look of the car.

Thank you

Kind Regards

Granit.
 


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